Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

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Stephen White
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by Stephen White » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm

Alastair, sounds as though you're enjoying getting to grips with deciding what F01 looked like in Apr 45. Where there is scant photographic evidence, extrapolation from known build standards provides the most likely answers but it leaves room for some imaginative decisions.

There were three standards of drive sprocket. The photos show the left one to be the second type, with spokes centred between the sprocket teeth but without the later star shaped locking plate. Since the second type was introduced in Apr 43 from Fgstl Nr 220, the sprocket was almost certainly changed post production. As you say, there are no photos of the right side, so it's of course feasible by Apr 45 for the sprocket on that side to be of any of the three patterns. On balance, I think it most likely that both sprockets were changed at the same time.

There aren't any known photos of the rear. The external exhaust array on the Tiger wasn't intended to reduce the noise signature as much as reduce the thermal signature. The steel guards fitted from Jan 43 were intended to reduce the visibility of the exhausts at night, by shielding the glowing pipes and diffusing the exhaust plumes after complaints from operational crews. You're right to say that the guards can't be seen on the side photos and it's pretty likely that they'd been removed. The flame traps wouldn't be visible from the angles of the photos and there would be no reason to remove them. On balance, I'd suggest this is pretty much what you'd expect to see:

f01-3.jpg
f01-9.jpg

You've noted that F01 was probably one of the tanks from Putlos and was therefore probably fitted with the gas installation. It might be worth researching that to see what was involved in removing it and to see what build standard the other tanks had. I know of one photo of a Putlos Tiger with gas but not if there are many others.

A final thought. One way of deciding what you can and can't see on the photos is to build a 1/35th model and orientate it to the aspects seen in the photos of F01. That might help you decide. That and relying on the spreadsheet which I developed with David Byrden.

Good luck, it'll be a unique and interesting build.

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:00 pm

Stephen,
Thanks for your reply.
It is interesting to see on page 88 of Tigers in Combat III, a picture of 250155 being used to train recruits from s.Pz.Abt 508 in the art of embarking/disembarking a Tiger on to a railway flat car. My research suggests that this would have been in Jul 43 and even by then the RHS sprocket had been changed to the later pattern (without the locking plate). The photo is from a set in the book showing training at Paderborn.

Regards,
Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:09 am

Update

Build Standard.
Having discussed this with the people from the Tank Museum and with David Byrden I have decided to go for the HL230. This is based on the assumption that the early Tigers used at the Training Schools would have worn-out their 210s and gone for an in-field upgrade. Based on evidence provided by David it appears that this modification did not always involve the fitting of the large rectangular plate seen on the Mid and Late Tigers that had the 230 fitted on the production line. Consequently, I shall retain both circular engines access panels on the belly plate and add the additional panels/drains as required.

Model
The kit provides side panels (lower and sponson) as 8mm plate. In reality, the lower plate was 62mm (10.3 approx 10mm - under scale) and the sponson sides were 82mm (13.7 approx 14mm – over scale). So the plan will to fit some internal liners to bring the sponson thickness up to 14mm and to fit some external ‘doublers’ to give the impression that the lower plates are closer to scale thickness (the doubler idea is borrowed from David Wilkins). This will enable me to replace the engine decking plate with something more prototypical and provide support for the top plate, which will be removable.

I am also going to replace the forward bulkhead and engine deck plate support with more realistic versions so that I can fit a firewall etc..

Pictures to follow when I have sent the CAD drawings to a laser cutting service. :wink:

Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by Vince Cutajar » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:33 pm

Thanks for the update Alistair. Looking forward to more.

Vince

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:15 pm

Update - 24 Nov 19

It is amazing what you do not see when studying pictures and what eventually becomes obvious :oops: !
I have 'just' noticed that the image on page 107 of DW to Tiger 1 shows 250159 the next Tiger off the production line after the base for F01 (250158). I think the photograph was taken during a training course judging by the grouping of the figures. There is not enough of the background visible to determine if 159 joined 158 at Putlos or whether it was retained at Paderborn.

I am working up to actually cutting metal and making chips but in the meantime here are some images of parts I have sent out for laser cutting
20150104_062741-tiny.jpg
Firewall Bracket
20150104_062741-tiny.jpg (14.27 KiB) Viewed 909 times
20150104_062537-tiny.jpg
Side Plate Doublers
20150104_062537-tiny.jpg (13.06 KiB) Viewed 909 times
20150104_062518_tiny.jpg
Engine Cover Plate Support Frame
20150104_062518_tiny.jpg (14.43 KiB) Viewed 909 times
The firewall bracket will have the holes opened out to 20 mm using a step drill. Below is a drawing of the revised belly plate. I am going to 'laminate' two 1.5 mm thick plates so that the covers can be partially indented and I can have a 'slot' for some weld detail. The extra holes will be for floor support beams and for angled brackets to re-attach the front and rear plates. The drain valves will be made from turned brass that have a thread cut for bolting through the 'inner' plate.
belly plate.jpg
Belly Plate Drawing
Note that as discussed earlier the belly plate has been updated for the HL230 as suggested by David Byrden.
Enjoy, :)

Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:20 pm

Update - 23 Dec 19

Some progress to report. I have successfully tapped through the M6 holes on the suspension bars so that the ‘lock’ screws can be fitted from the inside.
20150119_073107-tiny.jpg
20150119_073107-tiny.jpg (25.09 KiB) Viewed 788 times
tapping through
20150125_084058-tiny.jpg
20150125_084058-tiny.jpg (22.06 KiB) Viewed 788 times
holes from top/inside

I have also just received the replacement belly plate(s) I used Fractory to get them laser cut. The inspection covers have been 3D printed in resin using an Anycubic Photon - courtesy of Santa (my son!). I intend to use 10BA bolts to secure them once the plates have been countersunk, bonded and primed.
20150210_035204-tiny.jpg
20150210_035204-tiny.jpg (15.32 KiB) Viewed 788 times
Picture gives general idea. Shiny new aluminium makes close-ups hard to get without reflections!
20150210_035151-tiny.jpg
20150210_035151-tiny.jpg (19.71 KiB) Viewed 788 times
Inspection covers
20150210_035022-tiny.jpg
20150210_035022-tiny.jpg (15.63 KiB) Viewed 788 times
Covers - a couple in place.

Merry Christmas to all. :)

Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:37 pm

Dear All
Slightly clear image :D
https://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/down ... e9b4f75df5

Alastair
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20150210_035037_001-tiny.jpg

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by simon_manning » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:03 pm

A lot of nice upgrades going on here on this build, great to follow, regards simon manning.

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by Robert E Morey » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:55 pm

Alastair,
Great looking upgrades, I'm following along as well. A resin printer is a great addition for those detail parts. Looking forward to more mods!
best regards, and happy holidays.
Bob

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:42 pm

Update - 4 Jan 20

I was unsure about the accuracy of my transfer of the M4 bolt holes from the suspension support bars to my revised belly plate. I had them cut deliberately undersize (just in case) and so my first job was to drill through using the original belly plate as a guide:
20150222_061701-doc.jpg
The bars were then attached to the new plates;
20150222_081428-doc.jpg
20150222_081441-doc.jpg
The inside view below shows the how inner plate has been shaped to allow adhesive to be used as part of the ‘lamination’ process. (I intend to use UV activated glue.) The picture also shows the ‘stiffeners’, or floor support beams, I am going to add to restore some rigidity to the belly plate and provide support for the internals (batteries, electronics, dummy engine, etc.). I plan to cut up the original belly plate and use it to build a ‘false’ floor.
20150222_081723-doc.jpg
The next job will to fit, drill, and tap the stiffeners as well as design the front and rear brackets to enable re-attachment of the lower plates which will be cut from the original belly plate.
Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:28 pm

Hi All,
Update – 25 Jan 20

Progress to report.

The stiffening bars were milled to size (I had them cut oversized when I ordered the metal as I do not have a band saw) then drilled and tapped.
20150226_132821-doc.jpg
Milling to size
20150301_053147-doc.jpg
Drilling and tapping
20150302_113122-doc.jpg
Stiffeners attached
The next job was to turn up some brass to represent the belly floor drain valves and the shock absorber attachment bolts. Both have a M6 thread cut for a securing nut.
20150315_033435-doc.jpg
Next task will be to drill holes in the chassis side plates for some replacement bump stops, the shock absorber bolts, additional sponson re-enforcing bracket attachment bolts and the doubler plates at the front and rear to simulate the 60mm plate thickness.

Alastair

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by Vince Cutajar » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:36 pm

I like the idea of those floor stiffeners although I don't think they would have worked on mine. Reason being that to lock the torsion bars, I used cap head screws instead of the grub screws and there would be a possibility that when the torsion bar twists the cap head screws will hit the stiffeners. Using grub screws (as per assembly instructions) will negate this possibility.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next update.

Vince

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:27 am

Hi All,
Update 23 Feb 20
Chassis side plate modifications:
As mentioned earlier I have some of Steve Winstone’s excellent replacement bump stops and so I drilled the plates to take these as well as drilled, ‘plunge’ milled and bored holes to take the early style damper mounting bosses. I then went on to countersink the holes on the sponson floor plates so I can use fasteners that will be fitted flush with, or below, the surface of the scalloped part. These will then be filled and smoothed to end up with something more prototypical.
20150403_152819-doc.jpg
20150405_012619-doc.jpg
20150405_101010-doc.jpg
Dry fitting the parts, the boss will be finished off when I make the other three.
20150411_092121-doc.jpg
Countersinking the holes for the attachment fasteners. Just as well the bit was very long and I had several clamps. :wink: Any shorter and this plan would not have worked. :?
20150412_095134-doc.jpg
Fasteners dry fitted.
Next, I will countersink the holes in the new belly plate.
Alastair.

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by simon_manning » Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:19 pm

Always nice to see a complete engineering project on the go, keep the posts coming, regards simon manning.

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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann

Post by AlastairCooke » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:32 pm

Hi All,
Update 14 Mar 20

Countersinking the holes for the M4 fasteners. I used a centre-finder to line up the counter-sink bit with the existing hole. Then it was just a matter of judging the depth to ‘drill’: just deep enough that I can use filler to hide the fasteners later. :?
20150419_044923_001-doc.jpg
20150419_045100_001-doc.jpg
20150419_045826-doc.jpg
Milling slots in front plates for weld detail. Using an edge finder to locate the milling cutter ready to ‘thin’ the front plate. I will take about 1 mm off the ends of this plate so that the welds will be ‘sunk’ as per the actual hull.
20200307_161746-doc.jpg
20200307_182718-doc.jpg
Fitting the front ‘thickener plate’ to give the illusion of 62mm (approx 10mm scale) lower side plates. This doubler idea is borrowed from David Wilkins.
20200308_151856-doc.jpg
Tapping the side plate for countersunk brass fasteners.
20200308_191301-doc.jpg
Thickener plate attached ready for drilling and tapping of additional holes.
20200314_105358-doc.jpg
All fasteners fitted. I am using Presto taps (from ARC Eurotrade). They are very good: especially with aluminium.
20200314_105358-doc.jpg
20200314_121426-doc.jpg
Plate finished. The tow shackle hole was milled out to 8mm diameter. Just needs trimming to size. Then its on to the other end of the plate. :)
Alastair

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