Engine L60 for Chieftain

Forum for discussion relating to the Chietain MBT
Ivano Costantini
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:53 pm

Thank you very much!
Ivano

Robert Reid
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Robert Reid » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:35 am

https://www.mmodelstore.com/modernsnacks1-1-1-2.aspx

Would something like this allow you to scale up?

Cheers,

RPR

Ivano Costantini
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:10 am

Thanks Robert,
this model has already been provided to me by Mr. Wollard. It is a very small scale, not easy to correctly detect shapes and sizes. Anyway I'm working on it. Thank you very much Ivano

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Robert Reid » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:44 pm

So I put my historians hat on and did a bit of research to see if there are some (or one) archive where L60 blueprints or general arrangements drawings might be found. Came up with these leads... The Leyland collection does not seem to be in any one place. But spread across a vast number of museums, archives and even car clubs. Finding the 'right' place for the L60 may take some calls or e-mails. Though it is likely that the prints are out there and probably accessible.

Among the candidates:

The National Archives appears to hold the Leyland business records, though not the technical materials.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... /c/F168007

The Leyland technical materials/photos from 1900 into the 1980's are at the The British Commercial Vehicle Museum Archive, which is an extension of the National Archive. Their web site lists military vehicles in their collection. http://www.britishcommercialvehiclemuse ... -archives/

The National Archives also references the Tank Museum at Bovington, but I am certain that has been scoured. And I sort of suspect a lot of good 'how to fix in the field resources' but not a lot of blueprints that one could scale a model from.

One other possible source is the REME archives. Though my guess is that tank-related materials (along with things like artillery-related materials) were diverted to their respective core museums/repositories such as Bovington and Woolrich.

One other source is listed in the Bibliography of Simon Dunston's Osprey book on the Chieftain and that is a private archive/collection held by a gentleman named Mike Verrall. Ring a bell with anyone? Perhaps he might know where to find 'stuff.'

Best bet s far looks to be the Commercial Vehicle Museum in Preston, which seems to be the BNA official repository for all things technical and British Leyland.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

RPR

P.S. There seems to be a Leyland Club with its own magazine. I have found magazine editors and club members to be a wealth of knowledge and generally willing to share and bend over backwards to track things down... http://www.bmcleylandcc.org/ This club lists 'commercials' as part of its repertoire and so my bet is that there are some very committed folks who may be able to help if you can navigate their membership and make some phone calls!

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Stephen White
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Stephen White » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:56 pm

Hi, Peirce, good thinking. My research on the tank itself suggests that if they're anywhere, they're on micro-fiche at Bovington. The problem there is that the micro-fiche archive isn't well indexed, so you get into a Catch-22, that without the drawing numbers, it's difficult if not impossible to identify where they are. Ivano has chosen not to take up my offer of help.

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:16 pm

Good evening everyone,
I think a clarification is useful, I don't want to look like a rude or ungrateful person.
I didn't refuse Mr. Stephen's help, I just tried to explain that I contacted Leyland and they offered to help me. The only thing they asked me was not to reveal, without their authorization, how much I would have received. I wrote to Mr. Stephen that, before accepting his help and consequently increasing the design costs, I waited to receive this documentation to assess whether it was sufficient. This morning has arrived. Right now I'm interpreting the diagram with the measurements I received with the designer. I told Mr. Stepher that if this material was insufficient, I would certainly have contacted him to agree on his possible collaboration. Perhaps, using the translator, it is possible that it was not understood, I apologize for this. Even now, I hope you can understand what I wrote.
Thank you all for your attention. Ivano

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Mark Heaps » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:20 pm

The REME museum may well be worth approaching. The instructional pamphlets and precis´that we got issued with during training condensed what we needed to know out of the various EMER´s ( Electrical & Mechanical Engineering Regulations ) in a quick handy to use form. We kept hold of them and used them to fix the tanks when we got out to the units.
The EMER´s were only referenced if
a) Any copies of the pamphlets and precis´ were no longer legible
b) It was a wierd and wonderful fault that they did not cover, and you needed more info
c) You were trying to do a 2nd or 3rd line repair that should have been done further back down the repair chain, ie trying to fix a tank within the Sqn ( 1st line repair ) rather than sending it back to workshops ( 2nd Line repair ) or Base Workshops in the UK ( 3rd Line repair )

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:06 am

Only a few studies on the "motor body"
As often happens, the 1/35 scale model does not match the dimensions of the diagram provided by Leyland Corporation. You will now need the dimensions of the tank engine compartment reproduced by Armortek. Comments and suggestions are very welcome. Thanks! Ivano
Attachments
L 60 5.jpg
L 60 4.jpg
L 60 3.jpg
L 60 2.jpg
L 60 1.jpg

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Phil Woollard » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Looking good Ivano! I will have the Chieftain later this week and as you know my first job is to get those measurements of the engine bay to you asap!
I am hoping that Armortek will send the motors as soon as they can as we really need those measurements as well. It's all very exciting! 8)
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Ivano Costantini
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:03 pm

Enough for today!

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:05 pm

Enough for today!
Attachments
L 60 9.jpg
L 60 8.jpg
L 60 7.jpg
L 60 6.jpg

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Phil Woollard » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:29 pm

You see as the L60 is so skinny I reckon that most of the engine would slip between the armortek electric motors, as the chieftain hull is so big the motors are fairly well spaced apart, we will have to wait and see 8)
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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Mark Heaps » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:02 pm

Although the engine itself was rather "skinny", the various ancilliaries, starter motors, generator, air filter hopper, radiators bulked it out quite a bit. Engine replacements were always tricky using the jib on the FV434 where you had to co-ordinate the movements of the inner and outer parts of it to get the engine coming out or down vertically ( vertical was relative to the position and angle of the tank at the time ) , along with rotation of the jib if required. The crane on the Chieftain ARRV, the CrARRV, and the Warrior 512 & 513 combined with a lifting beam made the job a lot easier and a lot less stressful. If the hull of the vehicle was not exactly level and you needed to angle the pack to get it aligned, spare crewmen would be put on top of the pack and moved around to change it´s center of gravity as required.
Mark

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Ivano Costantini » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:22 pm

Attention, it is only the lean "motor body".
At the base, with all the various components, is very broad,
about 170 mm in scale, it is wider than the Maybach.

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Re: Engine L60 for Chieftain

Post by Phil Woollard » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:23 pm

I agree Ivano but to get it to fit we could omit the ancillaries as they just can't be seen! I do have a plan you know 8)
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