Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

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Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:10 pm

It's now been confirmed that I have a Chieftain to build over the coming autumn and winter . I have already started the research and have ordered 3 of the recommended books so far. I'm keen to make a start but have to be patient, this will be an impressive monster for sure and with a little luck ( and a lot of hard work ) be one of my finest models to date. I have a few ideas of my own to make this model stand out from the crowd but lets wait and see how it evolves. 8) Phil.
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Kevin Hunter » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:33 pm

Phil Woollard wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:10 pm
this will be ……..one of my finest models to date
In which case this will most definitely be a thread to watch - cant wait.
Kevin

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by John Clarke » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:15 pm

Soooo, what colour do you have in mind? ...........................(hope it's not Dinky green! :D )

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Green and Sand :?:
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or Green and black :?:

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It's going to need a serious smoker on this booty for realism! twin smoker maybe? :twisted:
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Stephen White » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:34 pm

By the way, John, re the second photo of a model, the thermal sleeve was not painted in service in order not to compromise its thermal protection. It was often wrapped in camouflage net, which probably didn’t help either but paint was a no-no.

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:47 pm

I think green and sand floats my boat, it just works nicely. Everyone will have green and black! For the clouds of two stroke smoke, one of my high pressure high volume smokers, you can always turn it down. Also the donkey engine needs it's own wispy smoker with its own sound file. You just don't see the auxiliary engine running on a museum or a privately owned vehicle. In service/manoeuvres ( I hope Stephen can back me up on this) you may sit there for quite a while with the main engine shut down and the auxiliary motor running away keeping all the systems alive whilst charging the batteries, then as the order to move position comes in the main engine fires up, on a still and frosty night on Salisbury plain it all sounds fantastic! It would be nice to reproduce that.
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:09 am

The L60 engine noise is so distinctive, unique and loud, it's smokey most of the time (and that's with good MOD fuel supplied). It's intimidating and scary sound on the battle field would have put the fear of God into any enemy.
Now Armortek have to excel them selves reproducing that row, and I'm sure they will!
https://youtu.be/5ob4R07h0y8
Now imagine this effect 2 fold with the two stroke scream https://youtu.be/Ig6HS_zw-hU?t=76
I think the track clatter is also very important, very very important for the overall signature of the vehicle, it's not going to be that hard for Thomas, who at present does not have the Chieftain sound on file ( or probably one of the Armortek crew) to record the engine and running gear sound whilst riding on the back of the beast. I have a local ground work company that own a Chieftain bridge layer that may oblige if it's necessary? Ideally I will have a speaker up front with medium to high treble setting for the track noise and probably a pair at the rear for the engine sound. ( a nice Doppler effect as she passes by)
https://youtu.be/EjO2weDxABs?t=22 Now I am aware that the conditions, ie dry weather are a contributing factor in the track noise department but we want theatre, this model needs to shake the ground, at shows and in the market place!
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I must confess that I played a part in the destruction of many of the Chieftains that were disposed of on the SPTA West live firing ranges.
Note the "stillbrew armour" in place and doing it's job.
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Stephen White » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:24 am

I agree about the sound needing to be 'theatrical" Phil, as in blast your ears off.... It's not difficult to edit a new set of custom sounds but if we stick with Benedini, he has a proprietary format which requires him to convert the edited files. He's very quick and it's not expensive but it does make it all a bit inflexible. I'm attracted to the Beier card, which has a larger memory and no proprietary software. I'd like to think between Armortek and ourselves, we could capture a comprehensive set of sound files. The other sound which is important externally, is the metadynes' exhaust under the turret bustle. It made quite a distinctive howl. Sadly, so few restored Chieftains have serviceable gun kit that it's not going to be easy to capture.

Interesting to note that the Tank Museum have no need to replace the track pads on their runner, so you see it as it would have gone to war. We had to be absolutely on the ball with replacing any damaged ones, in order not to get a ticket from a German traffic cop but come the Big One, we'd have had to ask 3 Shock Army to wait a while so that BAOR could remove all the track pads, which were only there to protect the roads.

From your earlier post, yes, we spent long periods running on the Aux Gen (or "genny"), which provided power for the gun stabilisation kit, laser rangefinder, radios, searchlight and, most critically, the boiling vessel for tea. We could also run on "silent watch" with no aux gen, depending only on battery power. Then you had to ration the tea.....

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by John Clarke » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:08 pm

I take it that you'll be the official Armortek build Phil :mrgreen: . So it's important to get it right and offer the Padawan the chance to emulate the Master.

That's why I think your in a perfect position to advise and to get the important aspects of the model correct. Let's see lots of working bits, head and side lamps that work, yep, and bang in a laser pointer for good measure. :lol: If a super high pressure smoker is needed, the option should be offered with the model. I cannot say if Armortek's present smoker has these attributes, but in the past I know volumes were not always as good as some aftermarket units. Loved the You tube clip, Yes, yes, yes that's what I want see and hear.

I also had an idea of a separate donkey engine sound, But totally separate to the usual system,stand alone, isolating it from the main sound module.
But other than the Tankie's who's heard the donkey startup and running engine sound?
There's a couple of possibility's on the market. Mtroniks used to make a Napier Delta Diesel a very nice little 12v compact sound module, featuring startup, shutdown, volume control amp and a pleasant Diesel sound with a good variable speed tone. Hooked up to a mini smoker and Robert's your dads brother. :D

It surprising what you can learn on the forum, I did'nt know, as with these self proclaimed professional static modelers that the gun thermal sleeve wasn't painted and why. :oops:

Just as well on my own tamiya 1/35 static amateur green effort, the barrel was covered with a camo net.
Continuing on details
I'm sure someone can tell me what was kept in the round 20- 25 litre drums so often found strung on the side of the deck. Oil? (Whisky, Rum? for medicinal purposes). :lol:
I'm collecting a few things at the moment for dressing, yet to find some 1/6 camo netting, not really wanting to fall back on full size army surplus scarf, though they can be effective.

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:33 pm

Fascinating subject Stephen and John, what entertaining fun we are going to have sorting this lot out, my point is for Armortek to take the lead and give everyone the chance to have some awesome options ( and I say options, for those with deep pockets and those who wish to spread the cost over time) as there all within reach, I will add these even if they are not offered.
The bustle exhaust I'm not familiar with, was this also linked to the NBC capability? All these sounds contribute to that Chieftain signature.
The sounds I'm sure you will sort out in house, lets give everyone the options in the sounds package.

The Armortek big smoker is capable of producing massive amounts of smoke, just not 100% of the time which is not necessary anyway, I use their smoker for my high pressure high volume system and it works just great.

The tracks, oh how I worry about the tracks, as I have said before, the Chieftain tracks have a relatively thin structure, this being fine in cast steel, the model tracks are a big factor of the kits price, so they need to be right first time. I worry that in cast ali with a very grippy rubber pad they will grip so well as we apply track steer inputs (which some owners will abuse) that combined with an enormous all up weight and the usual very powerful drive train, we are going to see breakages. Maybe for the first time we are going to see Armortek producing cast steel or even cnc cut links. I for one don't mind paying a bit more for the robustness of a tougher material and all that connected with it? 8)
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Stephen White » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Fascinating yes, Phil and I really think this will be one of Armortek's finest and certainly most impressive.

John, we carried a lot of spare oils and lubricants. The official stowage was in the turret baskets but we usually carried two additional drums on the rear mudguards, held on by spare fan belts bolted to the rear bins. It would be a good thing to add to a model. The oils were one each of OMD-75, the mineral detergent oil for main engine and GUE lubrication and OEP-220, an extreme pressure oil for the hypoid gears in the gearbox. Levels were checked at least twice daily. At every halt, the tracks were inspected, the roadwheel hubs topped up and the engine decks were raised to check for leaks. Most precious was the smaller can of OM-15, a very refined and expensive oil, which we seemed to need in large quantities, not to fill the hydraulic start but to start the fires which kept us warm in the depth of winter. Sorry taxpayers.........

By the way John, I don't think I ever saw oil carried as you've got it on the model, it would have been swept off pretty quickly.

Phil, the metadynes transmitted and regulated the power for the Gun Control Equipement. The power supply unit provided the power to the metadynes, which supplied the elevation and traverse servos. The cooling fans made a hell of a noise, as did the separate scavenge exhaust from the NBC pack.

Nice photo of the Chieftain on the ranges, although it looks like 04EB01 on Heath Range at Lulworth.

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by John Clarke » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:13 pm

Stephen, the can was obviously fitted by a complete amateur. must do better, Still nice to know.

Phil, I know what your saying about the tracks, Chieftain will put some stress on the on the tracks and sprockets. My friend's Comet sprockets being thin experience "hooking" and wear on tracks. He finds it too tempting to use the power and speed of the tank which has always been impressive.

Although you might say some may abuse the drive train, no one can never be sure what surfaces your going to encounter when showing the model, from "oh my gawd help me gravel", to "wear out your chevrons quick concrete". Every time I see the old factory Armourtek test track I want to hide behind the sofa. Soft going can be just as distressing and lets not go near water unless you want rusting track pins slowly grinding away the cast alloy track.

This larger scale Chieftain sprocket is made from stainless steel and is resistant to hooking and wear. If steel tracks were available, a welcome improvement it would prevent the model from early failure and becoming a static model ...............and nobody wants that if you've paid for the motion pack.

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Mark Heaps » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:12 pm

John Clarke wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:13 pm
it would prevent the model from early failure and becoming a static model ...............and nobody wants that if you've paid for the motion pack.
I remember the quote that the Chieftain was the best MBT in the world as long as it broke down in a good firing position. Having served in REME, I would say that CH, CR1 and CR2 were not unreliable but rather they were not used enough to keep them reliable. The first week of any exercise, we would be going from breakdown to breakdown and got hardly any sleep. After that first week things usually settled down, apart from one MedMan where one Sqn was on its second year in BATUS.

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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:13 pm

Mark, what was it like to change a pack? What was the most common breakdown? You guys must have had some patience and a lot of skinned knuckles. I have always been tempted to buy a Chieftain but I could never use it enough to keep it reliable, like you said ! Maybe I will have a Warrior one day, now that would be cool.
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by John Clarke » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:33 am

Phil, By all accounts all vintage vehicles will have to be converted to electric in the future to save the planet, so you'll have plenty of experience in that field. :D
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Re: Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

Post by Phil Woollard » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:35 pm

Perish the thought John, I love the infernal combustion engine :lol: You can have a Morris minor converted to electric for urban use for around 20k now.
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