Gun balance and elevation control

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Sam Hough
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Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Sam Hough » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm

Hi,

Was the Tiger 1 gun close to being neutrally balanced? Also was there any damping/springing?

I get the impression no power assist for elevation (like turret rotation has).

I'm sorry if should have been able to easily find the answer myself but I've had no luck so far...

Cheers

Sam

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Paul Wills
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Paul Wills » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:01 pm

Hi Sam,

The tiger 1 gun has a hydrophilic spring balance, it is placed on the turret wall for the early tiger.
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring & MG34.jpg
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring & MG34.jpg (70.42 KiB) Viewed 446 times
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 01.jpg
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 01.jpg (53.62 KiB) Viewed 446 times
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 02.jpg
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 02.jpg (33.04 KiB) Viewed 446 times
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 03.jpg
Early Aust E Tiger 1 Canon Balance spring 03.jpg (41.21 KiB) Viewed 446 times
and at the back of the turret basket in the later variants.
RM-5010 Tiger I Middle Production w Full Interior (3).png
RM-5010 Tiger I Middle Production w Full Interior (3).png (412.41 KiB) Viewed 446 times
TurretPlan.jpg
I've been working on a representation of it for my early tiger, but haven't finished it yet.

Both turret turn and elevation were power assisted and were controlled by the gunner via his pedals on the floor of the turret basket and the traverse wheel, but this could also be done manually if there was a loss of power. The commander also had a manual override.
TraverseWheel7.jpg
TraverseWheel7.jpg (32.31 KiB) Viewed 446 times
TraverseWheel1.gif
TraverseWheel1.gif (14.59 KiB) Viewed 446 times
Gunners-pedals-1.jpg
Gunners-pedals-1.jpg (49.15 KiB) Viewed 446 times


Paul
9 kp pz gren div grossdeutschland Tiger A23, Sd.Kfz. 7 half-track Artl Reg 146 (mot), 16.Infanterie-Division (mot). Flak 36 88mm, Erg-Zug Flak-Stammbatterie Augsburg. King Tiger & Pak41

Sam Hough
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Sam Hough » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm

Thanks so much Paul,

It didn't seem very likely the breech was heavy enough to counter the length + mass of the barrel but I couldn't see what was countering it.

So was all the force to move the gun up and down through this http://tiger1.info/EN/Elevation-gears.html gear segment? Presumably with a radius equal to its difference from the pivot in the mantlet?

The Haynes book, shamefully my only non-online reference, says there was fine adjustment. Is that what the http://tiger1.info/EN/Elevation-wheel.html is for? That power assisted too?

tiger1.info is an amazing resource but I really struggle to find my way around.

Cheers

Sam

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Paul Wills
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Paul Wills » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:20 pm

Hi Sam,

Yes that is the gear, however, the counter balance is a little more complicated, this is the first type in the early tiger.

Balance1.gif
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Balance2.gif
Balance2.gif (7.9 KiB) Viewed 411 times
Balance3.gif
Balance3.gif (9.14 KiB) Viewed 411 times
Balance4.gif
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Balance5.jpg
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Balance7.gif
Balance7.gif (6.16 KiB) Viewed 411 times


Your second link is the manual elevation wheel which is fixed to the beam that is attached to the elevation gear box in an early tiger.

GunnerSeat1.gif
GunnerSeat1.gif (15.22 KiB) Viewed 411 times
Bridge11.jpg
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Bridge12.gif
Bridge12.gif (15.58 KiB) Viewed 411 times

All the info you need is on Davids site but to navigate the information you need to understand that he has broken everything down into the components.


Another book to look out for is (the research squad tiger).

Paul. :wink:
9 kp pz gren div grossdeutschland Tiger A23, Sd.Kfz. 7 half-track Artl Reg 146 (mot), 16.Infanterie-Division (mot). Flak 36 88mm, Erg-Zug Flak-Stammbatterie Augsburg. King Tiger & Pak41

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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Sam Hough » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:59 am

Thanks Paul!

After re-reading the section in the Haynes book about the gunner's food pedals I'm also now going down the rabbit hole of what the MG retract was for!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Modern-S ... 0955642213 added to be Christmas list!

Cheers

Sam

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Paul Wills
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Paul Wills » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:13 am

Hi Sam,

Amazon don't have it in stock but If you want the research squad book, you can get it here http://www.theresearchsquad.com/index.p ... tiger-712/ and click on the on sale here. they seem to have their own distributors, £29.99.

I'm not sure what your question is on the MG retract?

Paul. :wink:
9 kp pz gren div grossdeutschland Tiger A23, Sd.Kfz. 7 half-track Artl Reg 146 (mot), 16.Infanterie-Division (mot). Flak 36 88mm, Erg-Zug Flak-Stammbatterie Augsburg. King Tiger & Pak41

Sam Hough
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Sam Hough » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:59 pm

Thanks Paul,

I've sent the link to my wife with a really subtle hint about christmas ;)

Re: MG retract. Why would they need that and any idea how much if would move by?

Cheers

Sam

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Paul Wills
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Paul Wills » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:48 pm

Hi Sam,

I am not really sure, if Kent was still on here he would know. I have seen it written down somewhere but I cannot find the exact measurement that it moved by, I think it was 7mm horizontal and 14mm vertical, but I am not sure. The only reason I would think it would need to be adjusted would be for the firing arc, closer or further away.

Paul. :wink:
9 kp pz gren div grossdeutschland Tiger A23, Sd.Kfz. 7 half-track Artl Reg 146 (mot), 16.Infanterie-Division (mot). Flak 36 88mm, Erg-Zug Flak-Stammbatterie Augsburg. King Tiger & Pak41

Sam Hough
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Re: Gun balance and elevation control

Post by Sam Hough » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:16 pm

Many thanks Paul,

I'm still digesting the photos you sent and the book is on order. Really should get back to putting the tank in working order before worrying about future upgrades.

Cheers

Sam

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