The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Forum for discussion relating to the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car, Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost and the 40/50hp Engine.
Robert Reid
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:20 pm

Sort of a short day today... finished the shock links and put in all the bolts, etc. in the chassis. And made up the coilbox.

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The shock links all together and note the little hex bolts in the front chassis rails. Added a bunch of square heads, too. You can just see the rear of the front spring mount that I also trimmed to mount flush with the frame. Bedded it with epoxy and will smooth it before painting.

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Chassis rails showing added square head bolts and details.

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Coil box going together. Several coats of urethane on the lovely little Walnut block. And then took the Amortek steel pieces and buffed them to mirror finish (the originals were polished aluminum). Epoxied them in place with quick-set and then drilled with a thin wire drill to set the 1/32nd rivets I picked up. The scale is much better than the kit ones for a really detailed look.

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Coil box done and sitting on top of chassis rail, where things ended up today.

Cheers,

RPR

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Chris Hall
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Chris Hall » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:04 pm

Robert -

Love that picture of the inside of the Armoured Car ! It just shows what could be done, if you left out the batteries, motion control, servos ..... but that would rather defeat the objective, wouldn't it ? :wink:

It does raise a question that's been in my mind for some time, though. On each side of the cab, just around from the front vision plate, are two square holes (I'm guessing vision ports to give the driver some kind of sideways view). There's no covers or blanking plates supplied with the kit, but it seems unlikely that they'd just be left open in battle ... somewhat dangerous for the driver with snipers around !

The pictures I've seen suggest there's a covering plate inside the cabin (ie. not on the outside), which seems to be backed up by your picture, which looks like the plates slide across. Does your magic parts book contain any drawings ? It's clearly something crying out for fabrication.

And your coil box looks great ! It's the little details that count. Which has given me an idea ......

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & 2 x limbers (45RA, Korea 1951)
M3 Lee (25th Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Rolls-Royce Armoured Car (10(RN)AMB, German E. Africa 1916)

Robert Reid
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:15 pm

Hi Chris:

Well, my plan for my armoured car (separate from the chassis) is to do an out-of-the-box chassis for that. But to do a fully-detailed interior. I 'might' leave off the top armour from the turret as they did in the Hejaz. No shell splinter concerns from the Turks... they lacked heavy guns out in the desert. And if you didn't take the top armour off, your crew would broil like a prawn!

So my plan is to do a completely-detailed interior.

The cars were all a bit different once they got in the field as the crews more or less lived in them and turned them into home! Plus they modified them almost from one car to the next. And about half of them had their armour stripped off and they were turned into tenders at Cairo. I have pictures from there, but they are from a stash that I can't publish yet... we are trying to figure out what to do with them along with the family and the historical community. Thinking book. I can share some privately, but they only show the tenders. (Anyone considered taking a chassis kit and making a tender???)

I do have drawings of the ports and, as you suggest, they are sliders from the inside. They were referred to as 'Pistol ports" and would also serve as a loophole to fire rifles. There were typically 2 - 3 SMLE's carried on racks in the interior in case the crews needed to dismount and fight. All the 'kit' is offered by Dragon, BTW. So everything from rifles to pouches to helmets to detailed Vickers guns... all there. In the pictures in the fields, pistols seem mostly to be with the officers... but people procured what they could get! Though most of the crews don't seem to have pistols in old pictures.

As I get closer to the armoured car build, I'll post a ton of interior pictures, etc. They exist. Or I can start a thread if there are some fellow static-builders who want to take this car to its museum-quality limits as a static piece! I seem to recall an SDKFZ222, maybe by Geoffrey Geoff? that was just a magnificent static piece. The potential is definitely there with the Rolls-Royce! If someone is ahead of me on doing that (would be great as I love 'borrowing' ideas!) and I have a huge archive of photos that I am glad to copy, post and share.

Also, the parts book, though that is typically the chassis modifications done by RR. The armour (like automotive coachwork) was done by RNAS, various shipyards, and, perhaps, REME if they existed in that time. I have pictures of the 'yards' where the armour was done behind high walls. And the name of the facility. It's in the Haynes book available from The Tank Museum. The green book. But the parts book shows all the little hooks, double wheels, etc.

So if there are any others out there who plan a static build of the Armoured car... do let me know. It's a blank canvas! Turned up to 11!

Cheers,

RPR

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Robert E Morey
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert E Morey » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:18 pm

Beautiful work Robert. Really enjoying your posts. The parts you are making are fantastic.
Best regards,
Bob

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Dave Dibb (Armorpax) » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:13 pm

Really enjoying your work on this Pierce.

Best regards

Dave
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Robert Reid
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 pm

Thanks Dave and Bob!

As I mentioned, this is such a wonderful kit. It helps that I work on the real thing every day.... so get a bit carried away! And can see details that may be harder to see if you work off photos or blueprints. But it's a labor of love!

So we are closed at the shop for a few weeks due to "that which shall not be named." But it's also the beginning of farming season, so I am splitting time between ditching, vines, dragging fields, etc. and playing. And numerous other projects from a Khyber Pass 6pounder breechloader to scrimshawing some powder horns. Yes, am a Horner, too!

Today, spent a few hours on the front axle.

First, did a bunch of smoothing and rounding. Also, made sure that the hubs could turn a full 180 degrees. A bunch of filing, and something I HIGHLY recommend for RC builders, Get those hubs turning a lot wider than the machined parts allow. Also, the aluminum used on the Armortek kits is the highest quality alloy. It welds so beautifully. But the downside is that it will gall at the drop of a hat. Aluminum on aluminum (sorry, forgot the extra I's) is the worst combination for anything riding together. If you are building an RC kit, I suggest cutting the space between the axle and stub axle with enough clearance to put in a hardened steel (or even mild steel) shim washer. This will keep the axle from galling and locking up. The weight of the car and the turning of the axle will eventually cause you issues, I think. I, on the other hand, LOVE working with this alloy for a display model because it machines, taps, welds so beautifully. Just watch the galling!

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Here is the steering arm side of the axle. I used 4/40 US (sacrilege??) threaded rod to make studs and tiny nuts to make the steering drop arm connection look a bit more original. The Armortek front pivots are really well done and the axle design is great. I am keeping all the outside, but wanted to make the arm connections more authentic. Also... and it was just a matter of time... started using some Rolls-Royce parts, in this case, some linkage balls that are the perfect size to replicate the original balls. Here you can see the steering cross tube, just starting to get fitted.

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As the left and right stub axles are different, I modified the left stub axle to get rid of the excess metal and three screw holes. Here, too, you can see the cross tube and one of the ends (sort of out of focus) as I try and set the steering.

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Here is the steering ball pad. This will get an outer cover with outer cup tomorrow.

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A couple of things in this photo... the ball is soldered in place and I'll be 'Faking" the nut below it tomorrow by gluing one on. Hey, I am not totally crazy.

Also, I don't want the kingpin turning in the axle eye. I want the stub axle turning top and bottom. So I drilled in order to put in a small 14BA bolt to hold the kingpin firm. On the original, the kingpin was on a 1:200 taper with a small screw holding it from turning. Kingpin goes in cold in a hot axle. Removing kingpin requires 20 ton press and a 5lb sledge. It's like an artillery round when it releases. But no need for that on model. Though for RC builders, again, I'd suggest attention here to ensure the kingpins run smoothly. Instructions say "Drop of oil" and may take a bit more than that.

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Last, note that the axle beam has been smoothed, rounded and fettled, to look more like the drop forging it is. And it needed to say Rolls-Royce. So I made a brass plate, stamped it, and glued it into the recess. Darn it's hard to keep 1/16" stamps aligned. But once it's painted it will look fine. Paint covers all manner of errors!

That's it for today. More in the days ahead. Armortek kits make social distancing fun! Not that I'd be doing anything different with any other vacation!

Cheers,

RPR

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by simon_manning » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:32 pm

This build is gaining momentum, and a Fan club, and as i said before an interesting Armortek kit not widely covered, superb RPR. regards simon.

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Kevin Hunter » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:03 am

Robert Reid wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 pm
So we are closed at the shop for a few weeks due to "that which shall not be named." But it's also the beginning of farming season, so I am splitting time between ditching, vines, dragging fields, etc. and playing. And numerous other projects from a Khyber Pass 6pounder breechloader to scrimshawing some powder horns. Yes, am a Horner, too!
In the UK we only get 24 hours to a day :D :D :D :D

Keep smiling
Kevin

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Jeffrey Goff » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:37 pm

great work Robert, it must be awesome to have worked on full size chassis, and not hunt for the allusive photo when trying to fabricate a piece, keep the pictures coming.
it seems we modellers share similar interests,
my powder horn
Image
regards Jeff

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:47 pm

Incredible work Jeffrey!

My next one is to send a friend out in Colorado... trading for some antlers.

It will show the route Robert Rogers and Rogers Rangers took on the St. Francis raid. French Indian Wars. Very simple map that I will be purloining from Kenneth Roberts Northwest Passage flyleaf!

Cheers and thanks for the inspiration!

RPR

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Jeffrey Goff » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:03 pm

Hi Robert, I can not take credit for the scrimshaw, I had the original powder horn by James Dixon, and an old friend who is no longer with us, scrimed it to the 95th Rifles
Regards Jeff

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:00 pm

Been doing farm work (also restored a cannon breech and made four powder horns) so only got in a couple of hours of RR model work today. But got the engraver out and did some plates. They look terrible in photos close up, because of the way the engraver leaves the lines. But when you see them from a foot away, they look awesome!

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Chassis plate. On the series of Ghost I am building, this would go on top of the coil box, and this will too!

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The three main plates for fuel on/off and the air pump selector. See below for the original plaques. Again, the engraving looks much better in person!

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The three plates. One is on the right side for turning on/off petrol. The other is to control the air flow to the gas tank (fuel pump.) The chassis plate is for an early car, London and Manchester. They later went to London and Derby when they opened the Derby plant c. 1912. The dimension on the chassis plate is 2" x 4". So that should let folks use these if they want for engraving scales.

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Here is the wheel nut that I am trying to replicate. I actually got it a bit wrong. And so will go back and redo. I'll use the ones I did for the armored car. But on the chassis, I have to make another set.

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Here is the rough engraving, but you can see I got the writing a bit too far to the outside.

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Here is one after final machining and polishing. But I can do better than this. The engraving came out well on the hubs!

Cheers,

RPR

Robert Reid
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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Robert Reid » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:52 pm

Having thoroughly disappointed myself with the Mk 1 wheel hub earlier this week... I am much happier with the Mk 2.

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Here is the center (depressing) part of the Dunlop locking hub. To remove the wheel, this has to be pressed in to unlock the crennelations. Otherwise the nut will not turn. Without a correct Dunlop wrench.. you will not get your wheel nut off. Nor will it spin off by accident. It would not be good for Rolls-Royce marketing if the wheels were falling off of His Lordship's Roi de Belges! This is what I used for engraving

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Here is a good dimension for anyone who wants to engrave themselves. That said, another member said he would be willing to set up his laser engraver and turn out a bunch of these if folks are interested. In either German Silver or Stainless. They can be epoxied over the hub screw (5mm) and then the hub nuts can be fitted using an ordinary spanner to catch the hexes on the Armortek hubs. Other than the logo, they are wonderful bits of machining!

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The original hubs were taped to an engraving machine... and cut four hubs out. These have the correct crenellations and proper dimensions, and will also have the oiling screw in the center when done. The trick is cutting them out to be nice and round... turns out that was easier done once glued (epoxied) onto the hub. Then turned using very, very light lathe cuts to get them round.

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Here is the hub temporarily fitted to a wheel... and looking quite lovely! The proportions are just right and the hub just looks oh-so-Rollsey-Roycey! Plus the German silver looks just right against the black enamel. Very satisfying results.


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Oh and remember the Dunlop wheel wrench mentioned above? Why would we do proper Dunlop hubs without a Dunlop wrench. Actually, I was going to do this all along because the Armorpax Tool Kits that I bought when I was doing my 25 Pounder... are very, very relevant to the Ghost. So it is a complete requirement that the Ghost have a Dunlop wheel spanner with it. And, yes, the center screw works. Not like I have anything better to do right now?

Tomorrow, we are expecting 8" of snow... so I get a reprieve from farm work and will get the steering side tube done... and likely the rear springs. Rolling chassis before my first haying? Maybe....

Cheers,

RPR

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Dave Dibb (Armorpax) » Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:47 pm

wow.....................
www.armorpax.net

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Re: The Time has Arrived... RPR's Rolls-Royce Build(s)!

Post by Vince Cutajar » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:00 am

double wow

Vince

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