Fitting & Filing....

Forum for discussion relating to the King Tiger
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RChianese
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Fitting & Filing....

Post by RChianese » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:42 pm

Hello Gents,

I hope everyone is staying safe and all is well.

I seem to be doing quite a bit of filing at body and turret joints in order to make things go together. Is this normal or could I be doing something wrong? There are many rounded off corners due to the machining processes that I believe need to be square. What is everyone else using to remove that material?

This is my first Armortek adventure, so forgive me if this is rookie question.

Thanks in advance!
Robert
Thanks
Robert
"He who dies with the most toys wins!"

Steve Norris
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Steve Norris » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:04 pm

Hello Robert.
You have not said what you are building but in a lot of cases some filing and finishing is required. The King Tiger and Panther tend to need a bit more work to get a good fit than most due to the various hull and turret plate angle. I find that some decent engineering files is sufficient to remove unwanted material for a good fit, you may also need to “pull” some of the bolt holes slightly to get everything lined up. Don’t worry to much about overdoing it as I find a bit of filler usually cures any errors.

Regards

Steve

Robert Cooke
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Robert Cooke » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:14 am

I guess Robert is talking about the KT, seeing as this is the KT page. I too have one and find the rounded corners very frustrating to deal with, I've filed, fitted, disassembled, repeated way too many times now and I'm worried that I might be removing too much from one side and not enough on the other. Overall I'd rate the experience 2 out of 10.

Does anybody have any decent photos of their lower hull and how much material they are removing?

Best regards,
robbie.

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Armortek » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:20 am

Robert, Steve's post above is spot on,but if you can be more specific on where you are having issues, we can provide some guidance.
If easier then email us photos.
Kian
Armortek

Robert Cooke
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Robert Cooke » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:07 pm

Not sure which Robert you are talking to, so here's mine.
Attachments
Rear Left Upper.jpg
Rear Left Lower.jpg
Front.jpg
Front Side.jpg
Front Right.jpg
Front Left.jpg

Robert Reid
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Robert Reid » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Fitting and Fettling are great British Traditions!

Fitters were considered some of the masters at the old factories.

"Parts that almost fit" become "Parts that fit perfectly" when finished by masters with files!

It's part of the fun!

Cheers,

RPR

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by RChianese » Fri May 01, 2020 5:53 pm

Wait until you get to the turret! I jumped ahead as my rear hull plate has to be remade due to a machining error. The rear plate on the turret is a little tough, so I was just wanting to make sure I was on the right track. Body filling will definitely be making an appearance at some point.

Thanks
Robert
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Robert
"He who dies with the most toys wins!"

Phil Young
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Phil Young » Fri May 01, 2020 9:13 pm

I was a mechanical fitter/maintenance engineer all my working life, all I’ll say is that all those years of experience have come in very handy on this build, including filing, re drilling and yes Robert... body filler!
Phil.

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors » Fri May 01, 2020 9:34 pm

"He who dies with the most toys wins!"
Although that's precisely right, we like to put that more elaborately to be less obvious. Like "senior modeler with ample experience"... :lol:

The KT is a difficult model to make with its angles, thick plates and bent turret. I have found on my T1 that the fit of the parts is generally quite good, but if you assemble them as per the instructions, they will not mate with the last parts added. If this is what you experience, I suggest that you remove the parts that don't fit and try to assemble just them. Start with the machined parts and add the sheet metal parts last. If they don't fit together, you have a good idea of what needs to be addressed. If they do, you can try to put the assembly back on the hull and find your candidates for addressing there. Armortek (and probably all machinists) call it "compounding of tolerances". It means that if you assemble the parts the unlucky way, they will not fit. Try to rearrange them or the assembly order, and you can make them come close. Then you will be able to see what needs to be adjusted for a good fit. If you start adjusting the wrong things, there is no end to it. Remember that the parts fit in the CAD model. It is in the machining process that errors are introduced, but there is a limit to them. The angle brackets have been a source of error in the past, preventing parts from mating properly because the holes ended up in the wrong place after the bending process. This leading to consequential errors. This is best fixed at the source, rather than reshaping that last piece of the hull that refuses to fit.

I hope this advice helps you build one of the most impressive models in the Armortek family! It is going to be awesome, once you get over the initial hurdles.

Best of luck!
Klotzen, nicht kleckern (Guderian on panzer tactics, but the way I interpret it - it applies to a great many things in life)

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Stephen White » Sat May 02, 2020 6:39 am

Best advice I’ve seen on this Forum for a long while, there speaks experience and knowledge.

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Adrian Harris
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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Adrian Harris » Sat May 02, 2020 11:19 am

That ought to be a sticky in the Knowledge-base topic :-)

I know when I started on my first model, I was surprised it didn't fit together as easily as I expected it to. Having met and spoken to Mark and Kian, it has been fascinating to find out why things are designed and made they way they are, and the difficulties involved in getting something from paper to metal.

I would imagine one of the reasons the other firm's models cost twice as much is that they have to spend the time necessary to do the same fettling of joints and parts to get their models together.

Pretty much every serious plastic kit modeller has multiple types of filler and grades of sanding sticks and pads, and those are needed for kits which are made by the tens of thousands rather than just the tens.

Please don't take this as a dig at the people who have been struggling with the fit but more an encouragement that things will go together if you follow Christoffer's advice. It also sometimes help to take a break and come back to something with fresh eyes.

Adrian.
Contact me at sales@armortekaddict.uk for details of my smoker fan control module and other electronic gadgetry

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Stephen White » Sat May 02, 2020 12:50 pm

Agreed. I’ll look at how best to incorporate Christoffer’s sage advice into the Knowledge Base.

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Mark Heaps » Sat May 02, 2020 7:30 pm

The 2009 Kingtiger had the same so it is not something specific to this latest release.
Best not to apply loctite to any fasteners at first but wait till all fits after all the fettling and filing, then remove the bolts one at a time, apply loctite and re-insert them. I lost track of how many times I bolted and unbolted the turret whilst atttacking various surfaces with a bastard file.
Do not worry if you inadvertently remove more material than necessary. You may use a little more filler or putty but not that much to worry about, and you should be using filler or putty in those areas anyway to recreate the weld lines on the original vehicles.

Mark

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by Phil Young » Sat May 02, 2020 7:32 pm

Great advice and very well written Christoffer!
Thinking logically with a good helping of common sense and using the process of elimination should be successful in solving most problems!
The main issue with the KT is the size and weight of the hull components, wrestling with these can be frustrating, but worth the time spent. I think this is what’s causing the frustration to some builders.
Have faith chaps, It WILL all fit together, mine is finished up to the point of fitting the option kits!
Phil.

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Re: Fitting & Filing....

Post by RChianese » Tue May 05, 2020 6:29 pm

Very helpful information indeed. Cars are the same with body work for sure.Try fitting the doors and roof section on a GT40. There was a lot of soul searching during those weeks.

In the end, very few things can't be made to fit with the proper use of grinding wheels, hammers, and shims.

Thanks
Robert
Thanks
Robert
"He who dies with the most toys wins!"

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