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An hello and roller assy question

Forum for discussion relating to the Panzer III/StuG III
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Nige Dalton
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An hello and roller assy question

Post by Nige Dalton » Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:47 pm

Firstly hello. I'm Nige living near Oxford uk and the proud owner of 2018 Panzer III no 16. I've had it a couple of weeks now so still at the practice building and a bit of priming stage.

One sub assembly that has got me thinking are the roller assemblies.
In the diagram the brass bearing appears to sit in a recess in the outer end of the housing. In the actual housing part there is no recess, just a straight bore through the housing, so the only thing holding the brass bearing in place and stopping it sliding to the ball race bearing is a bit of loctite. Surely this is not enough?

Secondly, this may be just the way I have built it, but I don't think so. The wheel is free to rotate on the axle as well as the axle free to rotate in the bearings. Seems a bit of overkill. The fact that they have gone to trouble /expense of fitting the bearings the idea is for the axle to rotate, but the wheel as well?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Nige

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Adrian Harris
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Adrian Harris » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:03 pm

Hi Nige and welcome to the forum. There's a few of us around Oxford so hopefully you'll be able to join us on our outings when the Pz III is up and running.

From memory, there was a recess at the front of the roller housing. I presume this has been changed in this release to simplify the machining process.

Depending on the type you use, Loctite can be surprisingly strong. Take it from someone who used the high strength stuff then realised the part was on backwards :oops: :roll: :oops:

The return rollers should never be under much lateral load, so I doubt they would move the bush once it has been glued in position.

Do the wheels still have the steel washer at the front, to hold them in place ? Once that is fully tightened, does that lock the wheel against the step at the back of the axle ? It would be better if the wheel was fixed to the axle rather than free, as the aluminium of the wheel will be the least hardwearing component in that sub-system.

Adrian.
R.I.P Margaret I.L.Y

Nige Dalton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Nige Dalton » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:48 pm

Hi Adrian

Good to hear there as a few people nearby.

The wheel is held on with an aluminium hub cap. I haven't fully tightened it, but with just a trial fit I don't think that it will ever stop rotation. I was considering pinning the wheel to the axle or instead of just having dummy rivets in the wheel cap drilling through and treating them as pins.

Nige

Pete Nash
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Pete Nash » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:44 am

Hi Nigel

Please could you include the part numbers when you have a query? This helps some of us numptys identify which parts you are actually talking about.
I'm afraid I am confused as to what 'rollers and axles' you are mentioning in your query.

I personally dont loctite bearing into recesses or onto axles in case I need to take them apart in the future.

If you are talking about the return rollers (CL0217 on page 5_) you could loctite bush CL0125 and bearing 6000-2RS into CL0124, but DO Not put loctite on Axle CL0126.
It is my understanding that Roller CL0127 and axle CL0126 should be allowed to move laterally so that the groove in Roller CL0127 can align vertically with the grooves in the Roadwheels, If they don't line up then there will be problems with the tracks running smoothly.

By the way, if you are going to motorise your tank you will need to trim 6 mm off one side of the floor plate that is included in the Option Pack.
The plate is the same width of the hull but, unfortunately, when the Rollers and Suspension parts are fitted their nuts and screw heads reduce the actual width and get in the way of dropping the Floor Plate in. No matter how I tried I couldn't get it in so took it to a fabricator to get 6mm guillotined off one side.

Pete

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Armortek
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Armortek » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:49 am

Nige Dalton wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:48 pm
The wheel is held on with an aluminium hub cap. I haven't fully tightened it, but with just a trial fit I don't think that it will ever stop rotation. I was considering pinning the wheel to the axle or instead of just having dummy rivets in the wheel cap drilling through and treating them as pins.
If CL0219 does not pull CL0217 tight on to CL0126 then apply some loctite to CL0126 so that CL0217 is glued to it. Take care not to loctite CL0126 to CL0125 - it should be free to rotate.
(The return roller should not rotate on the axle, but the axle should be free to rotate.)
Pete Nash wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:44 am
By the way, if you are going to motorise your tank you will need to trim 6 mm off one side of the floor plate that is included in the Option Pack.
The plate is the same width of the hull but, unfortunately, when the Rollers and Suspension parts are fitted their nuts and screw heads reduce the actual width and get in the way of dropping the Floor Plate in. No matter how I tried I couldn't get it in so took it to a fabricator to get 6mm guillotined off one side.
Should not have been needed Pete.
Per the drawings on page 17 of the motion option pack manual, you need to remove CL0104 to slide the tray in. Please also note the comment on the smoke option pack on the same page.

Kian
Armortek

Nige Dalton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Nige Dalton » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:22 pm

Thanks Pete and Kian.

Happy with the wheel situation as I thought the only movement is the axle with the wheel fixed to the axle.

Just working out where and how to fix the brass bush CL0125. I suspect flush with the end of the housing CL0124 is more usual location and this gives no lateral movement, but I suspect it will need more than loctite due to the tolerances between the bush and the housing. A trial fit with loctite had no retaining strength to talk of, and tightening the csk bolt on the inner end simply broke the bond allowing the bush to move anywhere along the axle CL0126 between the wide part and the 6000-RS bearing.

The drawing 5 shows what appears to be a recess in CL0124 to hold the Brass bush CL0125. With this recess I can fully understand how this assy works, but without I can't see the any lateral rigidity to the assy.

Nige

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Oli Dainton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Oli Dainton » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:16 pm

I have just reached this point in assembly and also am not sure how this is intended to work.

The axle and bushing are free to move in and out of the housing by half an inch, only stopped by the bearing.

Here is a video of the issue.

https://youtu.be/0rGrBDrfygc

The assembly:
1449D81F-AFF4-4F0F-852F-21ACC3B1FB4A.jpeg
And the instructions:
632BEB9D-4D99-4635-8F8A-F49E8D85232C.jpeg
632BEB9D-4D99-4635-8F8A-F49E8D85232C.jpeg (361.03 KiB) Viewed 2608 times
Having the internal bulkhead as suggested in instructions seems essential to keep the assembly locked laterally.

Did you resolve this Nige?
Any suggestions, or have we missed something here?
Thanks
Oli

yves mouton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by yves mouton » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:06 am

Hello Oli,

I glue every bearing and bushings of my tanks with
Loctite nr 648, hope this will help you.

Best regards Yves

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Oli Dainton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Oli Dainton » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:25 am

yves mouton wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:06 am
Hello Oli,

I glue every bearing and bushings of my tanks with
Loctite nr 648, hope this will help you.

Best regards Yves
Thanks Yves, do you think that will be sufficient strength to hold all these parts firmly? I can see how it would prevent rotation around the shaft, but also along its length?
Thanks
Oli

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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by yves mouton » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:37 am

Hello Oli,

Only put loctite on the outer ring of the bearing 6000-2RS and on the outer ring of the bush nr CLO 126 the shaft that
go's in the the bush is lockt with the bolt M4/ 8 CSK.
The Loctite nr 648 is strong enough. You can also put some grease on the shaft that go's in the bush.

Best regards Yves

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Oli Dainton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Oli Dainton » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:58 am

yves mouton wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:37 am
Hello Oli,

Only put loctite on the outer ring of the bearing 6000-2RS and on the outer ring of the bush nr CLO 126 the shaft that
go's in the the bush is lockt with the bolt M4/ 8 CSK.
The Loctite nr 648 is strong enough. You can also put some grease on the shaft that go's in the bush.

Best regards Yves
Will see how I get on thanks
Thanks
Oli

Nige Dalton
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Re: An hello and roller assy question

Post by Nige Dalton » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:31 pm

Apologies to Oli for failing to reply to your question from about a month ago. I'm going to go with the Loctite solution but am waiting until I can put the tracks on to actually fix them, just so I can see how everything lines up.

Nige

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