Oli's Build and Question thread

Forum for discussion relating to the Panzer III/StuG III
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Oli Dainton
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Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:44 pm

Hi there,

I've just received my 2018 Panzer III and now looking forward to doing it justice. Having spent several years dipping in and out of scale models and 1/16 tanks I've taken the plunge!

If you don't mind I have a few questions that I'm sure some of you can help with - to be honest I am a bit nervous about jumping in and realising there was a better way to do things so thought best to ask the people that know.

1. Are there pros and cons for completing construction before getting any paint down, or should I at least primer as I go?

2. Similarly, the plan is to get motion and sound packs in future, so can the vehicle be totally finished and these packs retrofitted without issue?

3. What are your sources for reference photos and information? I have some books for smaller scale but wondered if there is a known resource?

4.When it comes to motion, is all the information regarding radio setup, battery choice, charging etc included with the packs or is there a basic guide for what is required on that front? Haven't found such a guide on forum, discussions I have found have tended to be a specific question.

5. Any other advice from seasoned builders, beginner mistakes to avoid etc?


Thanks for any replies, no doubt I'll be back as build progresses!
I couldn't resist a size comparison to my usual handiwork - can't wait to get stuck in to the big stuff!
IMG_2461.jpg
Cheers
Oli
Last edited by Oli Dainton on Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks
Oli

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Adrian Harris
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Re: New Owner - Hello!

Post by Adrian Harris » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:50 pm

Hi Oli and welcome.

Take a while to read through the Knowledgebase and that will answer most of your questions.

I've found primering as you go ends up a problem if you need to do any fitting, as you end up having to primer again, and then had different levels of primer, unless you're really good at blending. Probably best to do it in stages and get everything fitting well before putting on the primer.

With the motion pack, the only snag is the mounts for the drive motors. If these ship with the basic kit then the motors bolt on from the inside, so no dismantling needed. If not, you'll need to remove the sprockets and final drive housings to attach the motor mounts.

Adrian.
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Stephen White
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Re: New Owner - Hello!

Post by Stephen White » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:09 pm

Hi Oli, welcome. Hope you enjoy the Pz III as much as I did. I think it's one of the best Armortek models, full of scope for detail and a wide range of options for full size examples to research.

As Adrian says, your first port of call should be the Knowledge Base. The Basic Topics are intended to guide you through the steps needed to build out of the box and the Advanced ones describe techniques to customise. It's a work in progress and is intended to be a guide to best practice

There are a number of approaches to assembly and painting, all valid. It's a matter of personal choice. Unlike Adrian, I prefer to do a trial fit, fettle if necessary, strip and etch prime everything (see the Knowledge Base Topic on the subject). This is to maximise the protection of all surfaces. There are a few exceptions such as bearing surfaces which you will not want to cover. I then apply the final base coat to sub-assemblies. Some builders, including some of the most experienced and skilled, now add the weathering as they go along. You'll find a one sixth model a very large and daunting canvas to which to apply weathering, as I'm finding with my Centurion, and there is merit in tackling the weathering in sections as you go. Again, see the Knowledge Base topics.

As for sources, have a look at my Pz III build thread here:

http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewt ... f=15&t=970

I listed all the sources I could find for the Pz III. The definitive source is the Panzer Tracts book. The Trojca book has engineering drawings and the Achtung Panzer No 2 book is good for understanding the sequence of modifications to the Pz III. You'll probably already be familiar with the online references such as Missing Lynx, Axis History Forum etc.

Above all, enjoy the build and do share your progress on the Forum and don't hesitate to ask questions, there will always be someone who knows the answer.

Regards

Stephen

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Re: New Owner - Hello!

Post by Pete Nash » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:11 pm

Hi Oli.

Whatever you do, don't be afraid.
1. To Prime or not to prime? I would say prime if you want to. It will prevent some parts gaining a tarnish of rust but the aluminium parts will require an etch primer anyway before you put on a top coat, otherwise it wont stick.
I would say the hull side are going to need an undercoat and top coat before the running gear goes on, otherwise it will all havbe to come off again. :cry:
2 Motion parts. It will definitely be wiser to fit the motion parts before full assembly. Leave the hull with the front plates on and running gear fitted and build what you can of the remainder. The 24 volt motors for the drive are likely to be heavy beasts so once they are fitted the hull will increase in weight and make handling a tad harder.

3 As for reference material, Haynes do a owners workshop manual for the Panzer III. It is based on the Bovington Tank Museum Panzer III Model L which 'our' tanks are modelled on. It may not go into the depth of detail that some others go into, but then it all depends on how detailed you want your model to be. Armorpax do some upgrade parts that give extra detail that Kiran and his machinists cant go into with their machines, for example they supplied the jack, Shovel and wire Cutters that are included in your kit. Google Armorpax for details etc.

Have Fun!
Pete

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Oli Dainton
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Re: New Owner - Hello!

Post by Oli Dainton » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:20 pm

Thanks for the responses - I have checked knowledgebase in the past, I wasn't sure if there were Panzer II specific considerations that I needed to bear in mind.


So my first questions came up quickly..

1. Test fitting the barrel to the barrel rear, it appears that the internal thread ends a little short so that the barrel won't screw all the way in..
It appears that this should screw in all the way so I wonder if I need to file a couple of mm off threaded end of barrel?
Anyone else come across this issue..?
IMG_2462.JPG
2. The barrel has the machining marks along it's length, which presumably will sand off, but there is a noticeable step about 3 inches from the muzzle that I'm not sure sanding will remove..
IMG_2463.JPG
If these imperfections are accurate to real life I can live with it, but would appreciate some guidance as to whether this is a defect.?

3. Am I right in thinking the barrel will drop to hull unless I install recoil pack? Is there no temporary measure to keep it horizontal, or do I need to fashion some kind of chock?


Thanks
Oli
Last edited by Oli Dainton on Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oli

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Stephen White
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Re: New Owner - Hello!

Post by Stephen White » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:25 pm

Oli, I hope you found the replies above useful........

Stephen

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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:55 pm

Stephen White wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:25 pm
Oli, I hope you found the replies above useful........

Stephen
Thanks Stephen, yes all replies helpful and appreciated!
Last edited by Oli Dainton on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oli

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Adrian Harris
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Adrian Harris » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:41 pm

The turning marks are due to the material used for the barrel - see the recent "Aluminium Grades" thread in the Armortek Owners forum.

However, I would have a word with Kian/Monique about yours, as that does look more severe than just the usual turning marks.

Adrian.
Contact me at sales@armortekaddict.uk for details of my smoker fan control module and other electronic gadgetry

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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:49 pm

Adrian Harris wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:41 pm

However, I would have a word with Kian/Monique about yours, as that does look more severe than just the usual turning marks.

Adrian.
Thanks Adrian, I have contacted Monique with this query.
Last edited by Oli Dainton on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oli

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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Armortek » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:36 pm

@Oli,
With regards to your 2 queries:
- Clean the thread of the two parts and remove the burr. The barrel should then screw flush. There should be no need to remove any material from the barrel.
Take care not to cross thread the parts as it will be impossible to rectify without causing damage.

- The marks on the barrel that you photographed are common to the way that the barrel has to be machined. The marks also appear more pronounced because we do not put parts with external threads in our vibrating machine.
The marks can be fairly easily removed with fine emery cloth

Kian
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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:13 pm

Thanks for your reply Kian.

Regarding the marks that seems like a easy solution, hopefully some sanding will do the job.

Regarding the fit, the barrel screws in and out just fine which seems to indicate threads are good, it’s just the last couple of mils where it hits a dead stop.

I have tried cleaning both threads as best i can with aoft wire brushes, but it still won’t go any further.

Ultimately I suppose I can fill this narrow gap if I can’t tighten any further.
Thanks
Oli

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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:15 pm

So in order to get the barrel to screw flush I ended up using a round file to apply a taper to the rear barrel part’s internal thread.

It appears that the diameter at the base of the thread on the barrel was marginally larger than the internal diameter of the rear part, so when it almost reached the end, it couldn’t go any further.

So I now have a flush barrel - is satisfying to make things work..
Thanks
Oli

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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Pete Nash » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:14 am

Hi Oli

Too warm to sleep :(
I checked my barrel and it has the same assembly 'problem' though possibly to a slightly lesser extent.
Looking closer it NOT a defect in manufacturing but a limitation in the ability of the lathe or die to cut a thread right up to a buttress.
The barrel diameter is greater than the thread outside diameter so that the tool which is pointed to match the thread profile can not cut right up to the end.
Bolts and screws have their threads 'cut' to the shoulder because the outside diameter of the thread is the same as the diameter of the shoulder.

I hope that convoluted explanation explains why you had to file a small portion of the thread away at the barrel rear entrance.

A bit different to plastic modelling 'innit'. :)

Pete

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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:26 am

Thanks Pete,

Glad it’s not just me .. I think.

Yes known machining considerations like this are certainly new to me but that’s part of the fun - learning something new.
Thanks
Oli

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Oli Dainton
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Re: Oli's Build and Question thread

Post by Oli Dainton » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:39 pm

So I have started some test fitting and it raised another question. In the case of some of the countersunk fittings, there is minimal space to fill to cover the fittings.

An example would be the glacis plate:
A7BEA5EA-B47A-4C1A-B44D-59F7BBBB1606.jpeg
I am away that I can countersink a little further, if the plate thickness allows, but in this case there’s not a great deal of thickness to play with.

So the question is whether others have used a filling material that needs very little material to make a sound fill with sanding etc..

I was planning on using milliput for these areas but would be happy to have a better alternative recommended.
Thanks
Oli

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