eight years, four owners, no mile

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Sam Hough
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Sam Hough » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:29 pm

Wow. Amazing tank, workshop and exit route!

The British solved the exit route engineering challenge in the 60s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkVuIRjoMhY ;)

Cheers

Sam

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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:35 am

Hi Sam,

oh, I'm glad that my launch method is a little simpler! :mrgreen:

In former times I had another solution which was some more difficult and dangerous, using a home built crane and very long thin ramps:

Image

Image
kind regards
Gerhard
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1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

Phil Woollard
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Phil Woollard » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:49 am

Superb Gerhard, very interesting logistical problem solving! Although I do think that you may be a "Hobbit" :)
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
Youtube channel, Magpiespyro. For 1/6th scale video action!
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Sam Hough
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Sam Hough » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:08 am

A tunnel/ramp out with a beautiful round Hobbit door may be the only logical solution.

I will stop complaining when I have to move the kids scooters/bikes out the way to drive the tank out ;)

Cheers

Sam

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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:22 pm

Hi guys, :wink:

well, when I planned my cottage 30 years ago I never thought about building big and heavy tank models, unable to be carried over the stairs! And now I have to live with my ambient conditions. My hobby the 60 years before were model airplanes, rather big too, but lightweight and easy to be handled.

BUT: please don't believe that my situation is bad! The last pre-owner of this cat had to carry it in his own hands over a large staircase (together with his sister :shock: :shock: :shock: )! No wonder that this cat never rolled before!

But even worse: he also had an Armortek Tiger I and had to carry this heavier cat in the same way. Maybe that is the reason why he changed his hobby......... :twisted:


Another guy has to handle his King Tiger in his home up to the 7th floor (via lift, of course) and manage it in the lounge, on a desk, with a cover between. And he paints it on the balcony! :shock:
kind regards
Gerhard
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1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

Phil Woollard
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Phil Woollard » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:31 pm

You are very dedicated me ol mate, keep it up! I found the aero modelling great fun but stressful especially the big stuff like quarter scale cubs, I had more fun with the over powered trainers like this one https://youtu.be/NXpZ9HBQKXM sorry in advance for the off topic link but it was aircraft that got me into Armortek :D Yeah "wobble cam"
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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm

Hi Phil,

nice clip, indeed! My model types were various, from hi-powered trainers / fun models to pylon racers and pure speed models, from semi scale warbirds to helicopters. But due to my health I can no more use nitro models, and electric drives are not mine. Therefore I remembered my times as tank driver in the german army (no, not 'Wehrmacht', but 'Bundeswehr' :twisted: ), and I switched to the cats.
kind regards
Gerhard
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1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:02 am

Here a clip showing the cat leaving the basement and turning ist first rounds (indoor I used the softest loudness; outdoor I spared the sound totally, because it was sunday). Please ignore the chirping before starting the engine; this was a wrong adjusted brake:

https://youtu.be/RKrytYxfqRg

I mean that 'full speed' of a tank like the Jagdpanther could be some faster, and my comrades here agree that the new Spiradrives are rather slow. (And they agree that the material of the sprockets is rather smooth; especially when using steel track links..... :wink: )
kind regards
Gerhard
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1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Phil Woollard » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:47 pm

Great video, looks like your having far to much fun :D , I will never moan again when I have to drive mine from the bench onto the lift down the ramps and out the door. Love the workshop (its always good to look around another enthusiasts workshop) regards Phil.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:12 pm

Yep, it took a little time and brainstorming to optimize my way of 'disembarking', but now the fun outweighs the effort! :mrgreen:

To enter the car my cats have simple foldable ramps, which fit besides one tank in the trunk. I'm happy not to play in 1/4 scale, because there the room is a little limited after all........ :twisted: (but where to hell is the car driver......? :roll: )

Image
kind regards
Gerhard
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1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Phil Woollard » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 pm

Holy moly Gerhard, Im so glad Armortek dont make a 1/4 scale because I would have to have one.
Now as you get to the bigger scale like that Tiger2 you just as well drive the tank and tow the car with it, a bit like those holiday makers in a motor home with a Ford ka in tow :lol:..love it!

Going back to your comment ref the spiradrives speed being to slow for a Jagdpanther, I feel that as its a model the guys need to keep the speed down anyway and so achieve that believable scale driving technique.I cant bare to watch these beautiful models belting round like a "racing tank". The full size JP would hardly ever reach maximum speed unless the crew really needed it (and the road was good), the threat of mechanical failure would constantly be looming :(
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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:13 pm

Hi Phil,

please don't misunderstand me: I am not at all a guy who 'belts' a tank model. I am the one who sermonizes to all my comrades to drive that monsters slowly and prototypically. Nevertheless I like it, when my tanks can reach the adequate full speed of the originals. For the rest I have my ESC and the long joysticks ! :D

Tanks towing cars: oh, I saw a clip where a 1/6 scale model, a self-built prototype of a Leopard, completely made of stainless steel ( :shock: ), towed an SUV of 2.5 tons or more in a grassland slightly uphill....... :shock: .

Maybe also Armortek models can do this, but I distrust the spur gear unit, which loads the full power to nearly one tooth. My other models use roller chain drives in the last phase of transmission which can handle much more load distributing it to nearly half the perimeter of the chain wheels instead of one tooth.
kind regards
Gerhard
____________________________________________________________________
1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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Armortek
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Armortek » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:55 pm

Gerhard.
At Armortek we do not "guess" or "trust" our designs. We test them, and then we test them again. The gearbox ratios are carefully chosen so that the whole range of models work at the correct speed when used with Armortek electronics and Armortek tracks. If you overload the system by fitting steel tracks and use inferior of the shelf speed controllers you will suffer a considerable loss of performance and service life. That is just a fact.

There are videos showing armortek models towing various road vehicles on you tube, just look for them. We have tested a king tiger towing a 15tonne truck with ease.

Of course every modeller is entitled to build and use their model how they see fit. Equally no modeller has the right to criticise the choice of others.

best regards
Mark
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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:56 pm

Hello Mark,

sorry, but my only intention was, not to tempt somebody perhaps to damage his model by overloading it with ugly towing tests; that's all. Please excuse me if you understood my words so, that Armortek models might be not able to tow heavy loads without damage. Such a statement was not in my intention!

After four years of using steel track links on three models (but not on Armortek models till now) I can say that the rolling friction of steel track links is not higher than of aluminium track links while rolling straightforward. My telemetry analysis (here: current consumption) shows the same value of both systems under these driving conditions. A significant difference occurs in curves or even table turns! Here the steel track links have a higher traction (even on asphalt), more power consumption and -yes- more workload and more wearout of the whole drive train; especially the sprocket teeth.

Therefore I mean that as long as the tank rolls straightforward, it reaches its full speed -under these conditions- with steel and with aluminium track links in the same way, and my Jagdpanther would not be faster with its original track links.

Another point is the used ESC. Well, it might be possible that my ESC doesn't modulate the motor signal to 100 % when getting a 100 % forward signal by transmitter. I will check that using a scope or perhaps an adjustable power supply instead of the ESC when my tank is back in the basement (after the current season).
kind regards
Gerhard
____________________________________________________________________
1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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Gerhard Michel
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Re: eight years, four owners, no mile

Post by Gerhard Michel » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:57 pm

The cat has passed its first operation in simple grass, and the result was rather bad. Both steel track links got off the idlers (my english is not good enough to explain the details exactly, so I will try to say it in my own words)

The cause was the very strong traction of these track links in rough grass (other grounds are not a problem till now). The tank tries to turn, but the track links will remain in their position. So first the road wheels try to move out of the track link teeth, then the idlers. Additional Vincent's track tooth (?) distance is 1.3 mm wider than the original Armortek tooth distance.

Here the original Armortek track link. All dimensions are fine:

Image

and here the steel track links. Please see the tooth bottom distances. The tooth bottom touches the sprocket inner side:

Image

This causes the teeth to get jammed within the sprocket:

Image

Image

Image


All together caused the track links to get out of the sprokets and then get jammed at the hull, and a reverse driving was impossible!

Image

As a 'first aid' I bended the teeth together a little:

Image

Now the sprocket moves free

Image

but this can't be a final solution! Next winter season I think I will create sprockets which are 1.5 mm wider than the original ones.

Of course all this is not caused by Armortek, but a result of using the steel track links. They have studs that are much higher than the original ones (see pics above). I mean this causes a much better traction, but prevents the cat from easy turning in a grass ground. Asphalt is OK, the behavior in a sand ground is still to be checked.
kind regards
Gerhard
____________________________________________________________________
1/6 Scale models: Jagdpanther (AT), Jagdtiger (BT), Königstiger (Porsche turret, NH), Königstiger (Production turret, BT), Pz. IV (SH)

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