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Kent`s Panther build

Forum for discussion relating to the Panther
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Kent Wiik

Kent`s Panther build

Post by Kent Wiik » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:59 pm

Hi all!

Time for me to help Tim, Bob and others with the action here on the Panther section of the forum.:D

Start now on my saga how to build my choice of Panther - Fgst.Nr120360 completed by M.A.N in April 1944.
A very early Ausf G, number 60 of built, and as such with a lot of interesting add on not seen on later build ones.
She had for example an Ausf A turret.

Image

Served in Normandy in the 12SS as #126 and later got the number #308.
As #126 she had the name "Hella" painted on the turret left side and there are some wartime footage seen on her.
She was the first running Ausf G captured in the west and together with #135 from the same unit shipped to UK for study.
She ended up as target to find out how to deal with the big cats but before that got well documented in photos from all sides, very useful for me :D

Has today not yet decided to have her as #126 or #308 but has plenty of time as this is a 5 year project only 20 months old at present...
As such, this will be a long time topic and please don’t be shy as I would like to have comments from you all so I know I don’t write for "deaf eyes" :wink:

Recently Dragon released a 1:35 kit based on one of this Normandy early Ausf G.

Image

Will get that kit (even if I spotted some errors) as reference as the critics have been pleased with it.

Previous topics with my custom parts will not be implemented here.
Nor will I add new photos in my gallery as it is still not working - from now on my Panther photos will only be posted here in this topic.

During my build I will point out things never discussed before and here and there drop some bombs.
You guys already finished your Panthers might take up your tools again and give the model a final touch - who knows? :wink:

Stay tuned... much more to come.
Kent

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Tim Bowman
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Post by Tim Bowman » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:18 pm

Hi Kent

What can I say other then I'm really looking forward to your build and what a great start by picking such a specific tank and it's story.

Bring on the eye candy!

Kind regards
Tim
"So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad." – Erwin Rommel

simon_manning
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Post by simon_manning » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:56 pm

big pressure on the panther forum now on you Kent, Probably you could say that the world is waiting.

Im looking forward to the build posts.

Simon Manning

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:21 pm

Well Simon we can’t keep the Panther-world waiting any longer so here we go! :D

After months of converting a number of parts it was finally time for some “realâ€

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leesellars
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Post by leesellars » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:11 pm

Hello Kent

Are you doing it as a radio controlled one?

Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:07 am

Hi Lee

As with all my tanks and various big scale models I want them fully rc.
But as a €10000-model I drive them with care (as was the real thing needed to be treated - total lost because of mechanical breakdown was common on German big cats and are pointed out in the Tiger/Panther fiebel)

My priority at my builds is:

#1 - The tank must function.
Any conflict due to function-scale accuracy, function comes first.
#2 - Accuracy with the original.
An expensive back yard toy no way!
Can the 1:35 builders do it so why not in 1:6th?
#3 - Time spend
Are of little interest as this is a relaxing hobby and not a trade for me.

For me the build is just one of many fun parts of this hobby.
The part I like the most is finding out how the real things looked like and figure out how to achieve it.
I spend 2/3 of my hobby time doing so and 1/3 in build.
Hate to do thing twice if I missed to have things right at first attempt.
The Japanese ww2 fighter pilots had a good locution "plenty of training - easy fight" :wink:

Kent

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leesellars
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Post by leesellars » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:18 am

Hello Kent

Why i asked is this. The problem is this, on my panther and others i have built to get it to run right on the tracks I had to remove the track pin defector as the track catches this and rips it to shreads and the bump stop brackets you have to cut the top section off ie the single bolt so that also doesnt catch the tracks.
The reason being that you have to have the track tension tighter than the real one to stop the track from slipping. On mine the track starts to come off the second to last wheel from the back.
Fantastic work so far.

Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 am

Hi Lee

Thanks for your input and kind words.
Yes, as I wrote above I had heard about the track problems so I reduce the return plate in height from I believe 8mm to 5mm. Time will tell if that is insufficient. (or I will go by rule #1 above...)
I have also reduced the top section on the bump stops but more of that later.
And moving the rear rhs one from the 7th to the correct 8th swingarm will be better as the tracks shall have the tension tighter.
Maybe that´s why the Germans placed it at the 8th :wink:

Cheers
Kent

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:25 pm

Let move on...

One little detail at the lower hull that is quite eye catching are the 2 on each sides placed shock absorbers.
With minor work they can easily be made looking more accurate.
This is how they looked originaly seen on the Saumur Panther Ausf G:
Image

Please notice the chamfer upper edge and the countersunk centre placed screw.

Please also note that the Dunkelgelbe basecolor are placed under the zimmerit, not on top! :shock: but more of that later on.
(this is called a cliffhanger and I do this only to make you guys keep the eyes on this topic in future… :wink: )

I just chamfer the edge and did the countersunk with a drill and came out with this:
Image

That was the plugs but their location was another matter for attention.
To have maximal effect they were originally located displaced and not opposite each other on each side as in the kit.
I replaced all 4 of them but the change was greater on the right side.

This is how they were placed at the right side as seen on the Overloon Panther:
Image

And this is how I changed the on at rhs front:
Image

And the rhs rear:
Image

Huge difference!
And when all done I was very pleased with myself :D

Kent

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Allan Richards
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Post by Allan Richards » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:06 am

Kent,

I can see that this is going to be one super detailed Panther. All the best with the work and keep the posts coming. I read Lee's comments on the track with interest, the track rubbing too hard against the plate and trying to come off the road wheels. When I built my early Tiger I took great care in setting up the sprockets and road wheels to make sure that everying was in perfect alignment and the tracks ran right. I placed some small spacers behind the road wheels to move them out from the hull a little and did the same with the return roller. The sprockets were ok. Another thing to check is that the wheels are all running parrallel to each other by putting a straight edge along each row of road wheels. This may not be so critical with the Panther and late Tigers as the swing arm bearing block is a one piece part bolted to the hull but with the early Tiger they were individual blocks and it was possible to mount them off square. I would also attempt to remove al the play from the road wheel bearings.
Allan Richards

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:46 am

Hi all!

Hope all is well with you on the first day of 2009.
And thanks Allan – will keep my eye on having the road wheels in line with the Sprocket and idler (but I guess that will be after summer this year with my speed as I am the slowest builder in the world… :oops: )

At the very end of the hull sides are the lift bosses and they are placed a bit wrong compared with the real thing.
Too much at the rear/up instead of front/down.
Placed so the U-hook can’t work properly and with the C-hook in place the assemble looks cramped.
All seen here in Bob’s photo with his stunning C- and U-hooks (the finest 1:6th aftermarket items ever made! – yes Bob that’s a fact :!: )

Image

The hull plate’s rear ends are also to square cut and in need for some filling/rounding.
Use 2-component epoxy at my fill-work.

Here is a photo showing the real thing:
Image

Please note the direction the welds were done in 2 semi circle.
Probably because it was the natural way to weld in that cramped area.

This is how my boss was fitted and the ends turned out in the end:
Image

The small red dots show the centre now and then.
The 2 bosses in front of the Panther are ok.

A ww2 photo showing the U-hook in place:
Image

And my Bob-made U-hook hanging there looking good:
Image

And U- / C-hook at work without interference:
Image

Huge difference! :D
Please note the cast surface I added on Bob´s hooks – It is all in the details :!:

Thanks for watching
Kent

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Tim Bowman
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Post by Tim Bowman » Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Happy new year Kent

Very nice! Your project will be a great source of inspiration in the new year. I really enjoy the before-after and the real thing photo comparisons. 8)

Keep up the great work
Tim
"So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad." – Erwin Rommel

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:33 pm

Thanks Tim!

And next some items at the rear again.

Looking at the real thing one notice that the round at the base for the swingarm has some 5 bolts with lockingtabs.
Image

Visible are also the welding round the countersunk area where the rear plate are attached to the lower hull side plates.
Image

This can quite easy be done with some drilling, filling and my friend Mr Dremel service.

But is all this visible?
Well looking at this Bergepanther pick and Vince photo I say they are.
Image
Image

Please note that the lift boss I talked about above shall have its outer end even with the outer side of the hull plate, as seen in this photo and don´t stick out at all:
Image

Easy job for Mr Dremel :D .

As with the loft boss the plates attached area was welded in 2 directions.
Image

Bolts of brass and spare lockingtabs from Mike came to good use.
Tapped the hole and superglue them. Did also cut them to get a flat inner surface.
Please note that as always the lookingtabs was bended in to the bolthead.
Image
Image

Please note the absent of the 2 fasteners for the Idler Bearing.
Changed them from CAP to countersunk CSK SLT.
Epoxy + some sanding and they were gone. Gave the Bearing the cast look with Mr Surfacer.

Was it worth it?
I think so or at least I felt good when it was all done.

Thanks for looking
Kent

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Robert E Morey
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Post by Robert E Morey » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:21 pm

wow Kent, amazing details! Thanks for posting these how to's. I don't think Im going to go back and fix all these on my Panther. But it is really interesting what you see and find to fix and how you tackle each problem. Well done, keep them coming!

Happy New year my friend.
Bob

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:05 pm

Thanks Bob!

And next, the Bump stops (the second stops)

Comparing with the real thing and looking at drawings in the book Panzer Tracts No.5-3, (An excellent publication and an absolute must have for anyone building an Ausf G Panther in any scale. If you don’t have it – buy it!)
Image
right side
Image
left side

One notice that the rear bump stops was on the left side located at #7 swing arm and at #8 on the right side.
Both are at #7 in the kit.
Easy changed for a rivet counter :D
Maybe of interest for you who build a later Ausf G version then me, that in October 1944 an order came that the rear bump stops was no longer to be mounted.
I don`t think it is wise to do so on the model (my rule #1 at my priority list above…)

Please observe that they was mounted slightly tilted – something I missed… :oops:
But hey, even the sun has spots :wink:
As the rubber stops had a difference in high I mounted them in pair as long/tall and got an image of tilt (also the real thing had a difference in high)

As Bob, Lee and others so kindly advised us before how to cut the mid section in order to have the tracks run smoothly that thing was on my list.

http://www.armortek.co.uk/gallery/main. ... temId=6639

But would it be possible to make something else in order to have the kit part looking more accurate?
Image

Making new bump stops were never on my mind and the parts has quite a potential.

Looking at the real thing one notice how rounded all edges are and that all bolts/nuts are countersunk.
Here we had work for the bench drill and my friend Mr Dremel.

This is how a bump stop looked like on a Panther Ausf G:
Image

And this is how my ones turned out in the end:
Image

The CSK SKT are now countersunk and its head covered with epoxy
The mid HEX is replaced with a more in scale countersunk HEX brass bolt. A dummy just sitting in its big hole looking good.
The M4 CAP for the rubber stops is also countersunk
Please also note the 2 drain slits, the dummy nut and how the area round the bump stops now has the rolled armor surface as there want be any zimmerit applied here, but more of that later.

I would have loved to slice the rubber as well but with these items almost invisible on the tank I stopped here.

Well, this item turned out as my old teacher in English use to say “not perfect but a good bit betterâ€

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