Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

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andyquirot
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Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by andyquirot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:48 pm

Hi all
Sorry but help!!!!
On the copy of the build info page 10 it says (FIT ALL THE SPACER G PARTS INTO AXLE)
I cant find anything that tells me what part g is. I have triped down on side and also noticed that the inner face of the drive sprocket has been rubbing ( to close to the hull).
What am i doing wrong / where do i go from here.
Regards Andy Quirot
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Adrian Harris
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Adrian Harris » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:18 am

My 2003 Mid Tiger manual page 10 (Release 1 dated 2/4/03) has slightly different wording:

"into the wheel. Allow at least 24 hours for the adhesives to fully cure before proceeding with the rest of the assembly.

Building the wheels and spacers onto the axles is very quick and easy if this sequence is followed and very nearly impossible if it is not.

Fit all the wheel C parts onto all the axles assemblies A and C. Fit all the wheel A parts onto the axle assemblies B and D. Fit all the spacer C parts onto all the axles assemblies A and C, ensuring the correct orientation. Fit all the spacer A parts onto all the axles assemblies B and D, ensuring the correct orientation. Fit all the wheel A parts onto the axle assemblies A and C. Fit all the wheel B parts onto the axle assemblies B and D. Fit all the end caps onto axle assemblies A and C. Fit all the spacer B parts onto all the axle assemblies B and D. Secure all the wheel assemblies to axles A and C using the M4*8 cap heads with a little thread locking compound. Similarly secure the wheel assemblies to axles B and D using the M4*16 cap heads and thread locker. Fit hub B to axle assemblies A and C and secure with M3*8 hex head screws. Similarly fit hub A to axle assemblies C and D.

Check that all the wheels rotate freely. Set the hull on the floor on its wheels. It should now be possible for an adult to stand on hull and bounce check the suspension and roll back and forth."

Are you using OCR generated text ? If you are, I would say it has confused the capital letter C for a G.

My Early Tiger manual wording is more like yours, in that it mentions bosses, but is not identical and still doesn't mention a "Spacer G".

Adrian.
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Phil Woollard » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:05 pm

Should look like this when it's all together..... :) and that's all I'm saying regards Phil
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Peter Silcock » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:42 pm

Andy - just checked and my 2003 manual is the same as Adrians ie no mention of spacer G parts. Do you mean that the inner face of the sprocket is rubbing - against what? I think its more likely to be the track catching but a piccie might help diagnosis.

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Adrian Harris » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:20 pm

Do you mean the main drive gear is rubbing - like this:
DSCF7348 - reduced.jpg
That's because there is nothing holding the driven gear in place, so depending on the play in the system, turning the tank can force the driven gear into the side of the hull like this.

The manual recommends using Loctite to hold the seal and bearings into the drive housings, and I thought it also recommended using Loctite to hold the driven gear into the bearing, but neither of my early Tiger manuals actually say to do the latter :?

The 2010 Mid Tiger manual doesn't mention it explicitly, but under Loctite in the parts list, is says "Loctite - High Strength - Bearings to gear case bores and driven gears", so to me that implies Loctite should be used to hold the driven gear in place.

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by andyquirot » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Hi All
This is where it is rubbing. attached photo
Also i have 2 boxes of parts that i dont know anything about ther i a sample. Photo2
I can see why so many of these tanks end up in the garden. The instructions are rubish. every thing seems lose (turned on a wood lathe i think). When i build my modelworks tiger it went togother like a dream.

I have been reminded that this model is now 14 years old a time before Gill and Mark owned the company. And is not a reflection on modern kits and the super way cnc mechining has come along, and as such it is not representative of the Armortek standards of design and manufacture.
Regards Andy Quirot
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Last edited by andyquirot on Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by martin pitcairn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Hi Andy,
the "rubbish instructions" were good enough for us to start this hobby off ! I build one of the first Tigers out there, I along with many other old farts had no problem putting it together, long before there was this fantastic forum. My mechanical knowledge and skill would not fill Phils " can of Bees" so they were simple enough for us to follow. we did it and my tiger still runs to this day, yes the product has moved on, yes the help is excellent, the forum is fantastic, but ultimately it is the Product its self and the support from mark and Gill that is the best in the market place.

Martin

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Adrian Harris » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:58 pm

That step on the final drive could be an issue on these first release Tigers. The design was changed and this step isn't on the later releases of the Tiger. If you look in Martin Hofmann's thread entitled "Martins Tiger1" you'll see the current design.

In the second picture, the two round disks are templates to enable you to drill the hull sides to take the mounting flanges for the motors. When the Motion Pack was first released, the motors only bolted to the floor, and the weight of the Tiger combined with the torque of the motors meant they could pull things out of alignment. The flange mount is a much more robust system.

The large black knob is part of the system to hold the turret in place. There should be a steel column running up from the hull floor, which intersects with a bracket mounted to the underside of the turret. The knob holds the turret in place and stops it bouncing around if the Tiger is driven over rough terrain.

The brass pieces next to it look like the cups which hold the idler tension screw heads.

Four of brass parts top right are for mounting the rear mudguards. Not sure why you have eight though. This Tiger did appear to come with quite a few extra parts, so I would guess the owner attended an open day and bought some spares from the rummage bins.

Yes, these early Tigers can be rough around the edges, in more ways than one. You have to keep in mind that you're working on the very first model Armortek released, before Gill and Mark took over. I think it's fair to say its release was not trouble free. However, it's over thirteen years old now, and things have moved on. Look at any review of a thirteen year old Tamiya kit and see how much people complain about the lack of detail when compared to a modern Dragon kit.

The instructions are one area I personally feel could be improved, and I have to say I'm not a fan just having the exploded view drawings of the recent kit instructions.

It sounds like it's fighting back at the moment, so I would honestly suggest taking a break from it before you loose heart.

Adrian.
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Peter Silcock » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:55 am

Andy I have to agree with Martin - these original kits did go together with a small degree of fettling. I did one with the original instructions and if I can do it anyone can! (Please remember also this is the manufacturers forum) As with a project of any sort sometimes you have to just leave it alone for a while and come back to it fresh. Looking at the small picture you have shown you look to be doing a really neat job and if the only problem you are experiencing is the small area catching I wouldn't be too concerned. Perhaps filing away a small amount of material might cure the problem. persevere and you wont regret it!

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:23 pm

I got to stick my nose in again guy's, that step on the final drive casting is a problem, it requires filing or milling down quite a bit in fact almost until it's translucent!
It is obviously proud and the sprocket is rubbing against it, ali on ali "picks up" that's why ali on ali threads is not a good idea.
Once the step is lowered the sprocket can line up perfectly with the rest of the running gear.
I have performed this mod many many times on the first edition Tigers. a picture says a thousand words......regards Phil
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by andyquirot » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:18 pm

Thanks Phil
I will run a mill over one side tonight and see.
Regards Andy Quirot

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:04 pm

Try not to go right through with the mill, take a measurement so you still have maybe a mm left of material, I have gone to far before now and then had to to plate it, you don't want and sh-t getting in the driven gear, did you fit the final drive casting ?I ask because to much sealant will also cause the casting to protrude .....cheers Phil
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by andyquirot » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Hi All again
Phil nice one i mesured 15mm and 12mm inside i left 0.5mm so i should have 3.5mm casing left. Photo attached. YES no rubbing.
One a nother note some say greese the gear and motor gear some say dont becouse it will end up as grinding paste. What do you do since i sounds like you have done these old tigers before.
Regards Andy Quirot
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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Stephen White » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:30 pm

Andy, the Knowledge Base Topic below reflects the official advice, don't use a wet lubricant. Lubrication isn't needed. If you nevertheless decide to lubricate, a dry lubricant such as Oxylube is advised. Copperslip is not intended for moving components.

http://www.armortek.co.uk/Forum3b/viewt ... =34&t=5796

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Re: Sorry all Help needed again 2002 tiger

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:12 pm

Well I pack with a good quality agricultural grease, I suppose if you don't the the debris generated with normal wear would fall away and settle out of the way at the lower reaches of the final drive casting, with an engineering background I just can't not lubricate, with grease if it gets warm with friction the grease melts ..becomes fluid and lubricates . it's really up to you.
I like a maintenance regime, ie dismantle inspect and react accordingly ..cheers Phil
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