For They Shall Not Grow Old....

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Robert Reid
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For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Robert Reid » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:50 am

Finally got to see the Peter Jackson WW1 movie that was a very limited release here in the U.S.

We showed it with about 200 cadets and professors at a military college and then held a panel discussion afterwards. I was one of the panelists.

I had not seen the movie yet and it was just magnificent.

If you have not seen it yet, it will leave you speechless. And I'm not just saying that... at the end, the room was silent until the room lights came up. Noone wanted to break the spell.

Magnificent example of the film-makers art.

Cheers,

RPR

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Stephen White
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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Stephen White » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:15 am

I agree Pierce, quite the opposite to 1917, which lost it before it started with an impossible plot line, although great cinematography. Peter Jackson has supreme integrity and passion for history, probably unique in his profession. My only criticism, and it’s minor, is that for some unfathomable reason, he chose to corrupt Lawrence Bunyan’s original words : “They shall grow not old...”. The sense is subtly different. I suppose he thought the great unwashed would corrupt it anyway, so go with the flow. Have you heard him talk about the making of the film? It’s fascinating, here:

https://youtu.be/KFMU_BGkleA

Pete Nash
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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Pete Nash » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:31 am

Peter jackson is a bit of a WW.I aficionado.
He set up "The Vintage Aviator Company" that makes accurate WW I aircraft, they are not simply 'replicas' but more an extension to the original production.
The aircraft TVA make are accurate to the original, including their faults, with one exception, modern metals are used especially in the engines to improve reliability and airworthiness. Other than that true to original seasoned (not kiln dried) woods and cloth are used.
The B.E.2c at Stowe Maries Aerodrome has a R.A.F. 1a engine that was made from one loaned to them by the RAF museum.
The original was dismantled, measured and reverse engineered. The late production one even has the same fuel leak from the carburetor that the original had.
There is also an Albatross D.IIIa hangered there. It too has the original lower wing spar position that caused flutter and break up of the wings if dived to fast for too long. It's airspeed indicator is an anemometer mounted on the right outer wing spar with a dial facing the pilot.
I believe he also owns the Company called Wingnut Wings which make high quality 1/48 scale models of WW I aircraft, except for the soon to be released 1/32 scale Lancaster B.1/III and Lancaster Type 464 provisioning (aka 'Dambuster')

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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Robert Reid » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:21 pm

I have heard he is doing a remake of The Dambusters.

In addition to his connection to WW1 through his grandfather, I think that his connection with JRR Tolkien is not to be overlooked

Tolkien's WW1 experiences, reflected in his books and themes must have been something Jackson delved into. He had to take the images in Tolkiens mind... from WW1. And try to put them on film. Tolkien was in some horrific actions. Amiens, the Somme and the Leipzig push. He lost nearly everyone he knew growing up. And was at a part of the Somme where they were losing "12 junior officers a minute."

After being invalided home, he began writing the short stories and creating the world that was Middle Earth. That had to make an impression on Jackson.

Well... off to look up Wingnut Wings!

Cheers, RPR

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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Robert Reid » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:32 pm

Stephen White wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:15 am
for some unfathomable reason, he chose to corrupt Lawrence Bunyan’s original words : “They shall grow not old...”. The sense is subtly different. I suppose he thought the great unwashed would corrupt it anyway, so go with the flow.
The accidental addition of the word "For" in the title was my mistake. The movie title is They Shall Not Grow Old. So the wording is intact and I profess the corruption!

I have not seen the 'making of' but plan on watching it today. I was hoping they would show it at the film screening last night, but the chow hall was about to close and you can't keep cadets away from their dinner if you don't want a riot on your hands.

Cheers,

RPR

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Adrian Harris
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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Adrian Harris » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:18 pm

I have to say I thought it a very powerful film, but the repetition within it became grating after a while, to the detriment of the actual content.

Adrian.
Contact me at sales@armortekaddict.uk for details of my smoker fan control module and other electronic gadgetry

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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Michael Cecil » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:37 pm

Hi All,

Great film, but I agree with Adrian about the repetition. The tank colour didn't appear accurate, either - a green, rather than brown finish. But overall, fantastic and grateful he had his company do it. Jackson was also instrumental in the WW1 aviation short film that forms part of the WW1 aviation exhibition at the Australian War Memorial, which is excellent, but unfortunately not commercially available.

Pete, I think you'll find it was an RAF 4a engine that was reverse engineered by Jackson's company, and it was on loan from the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, not the RAF Museum.

Regards

Mike

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Stephen White
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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Stephen White » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:42 pm

Pierce,

Binyon wrote: "they shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old, age etc..."

Jackson changed it to: "they shall not grow old,... " which conveys a subtly different meaning. Language, like a finely honed tool, can be very precise. I suppose Jackson reasoned that people who weren't familiar with Binyon would get it wrong anyway, so go with the popular flow.

The Dambusters project has been on the back burner for years. The script was supposedly written by Stephen Fry, which didn't get universal approbation. 617 Squadron's WW2 operations have been the subject of a lot of myth making, going back to Paul Brickhill's original book and although there have been some very good revisionist histories, notably John Sweetman' analysis and the recent book by James Holland, I suspect the film would find it difficult to avoid straying into Hollywood caricature. Anyway, that's a long way from 1/6th tanks.

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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Robert Reid » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:40 pm

Steven:

Thanks for the insight on the quote itself... I did not know that!

As for this:
Stephen White wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:42 pm

Anyway, that's a long way from 1/6th tanks.
I will disagree.... because we would have no 1/6th tanks without a universal interest in military history... be it in technology, tactics, sociology, or any other aspect.

We have a passion for large scale tanks and military vehicles and artillery and all the other elements (and minutae) of our hobby (hobbies) for any one of a number of reasons. But one big reason is a fascination with the history of conflict...

Cheers,

RPR

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Robert E Morey
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Re: For They Shall Not Grow Old....

Post by Robert E Morey » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:11 pm

All Wingnut Wings models are 1/32 scale. There is a magnificent collection of WW1 plane models for fans of those type of airplanes. They are highly detailed and include awesome instructions and decals. Even at 1/32 the planes are quite small. The Lancaster is their first venture into WW2 planes. Its a great company. I love the Vintage Aviator real airplanes as well. Will check out that movie...
Bob

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