The V2 project

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Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:01 am

Some interesting photos of the Protze I use for reference. It makes for fascinating reading as there is tons of info on the net if you look for it.
A very shy underrated light truck with many different marques for different rolls serving on many campaigns and fronts.
Maybe Armortek would consider a few more wheeled vehicles to ad to their collection, the big expensive tracked examples are just great but a few more less expensive types would be very welcome.
I'm thinking of building from scratch but using as many Armortek parts as I can (sorry Monique) a big Allied truck, something like a Matador or Bedford, what do you guys think, and would I have a customer to take it off my hands after a six month build?
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The Protze had a "boxer" air cooled engine which proved popular in the dry/arid or cold areas of the world where water was in short supply, or water was in the form of ice a lot of the time!
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Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
Youtube channel, Magpiespyro. For 1/6th scale video action!
Email; philandkris2@hotmail.com

Liam Mahoney
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Liam Mahoney » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:29 pm

Hi Phil
I think generally the centre point between the rear axles, twin rear axles will scrub anyway.
So is that a 4 cylinder in that truck, seems a bit small?

Liam

Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:46 am

A little more progress to the oily bits. Liam the Protze initially had a 60 hp engine, this was then increased to a 70 hp unit, not much by today's standards but the horse power per ton was not bad and with just 4 cylinders not much to go wrong either.
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The drive shaft right where it needs to be, I'm leaving the prop sharft long until the motor and gearbox arrives.
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The best way to run in the gears/drive train rather than over stress the expensive motor and gearbox.
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I have noticed that the driven gear before the centre diff is a couple of thou out of true, (I used masking tape to mark the shaft and held that part in the lathe chuck, this throwing the shaft out of true by a couple of thou) so I will need to turn the bearing shoulder once more a little further along the shaft, it's always a good idea to leave the shaft long until you are happy with everything!
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
Youtube channel, Magpiespyro. For 1/6th scale video action!
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Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:48 pm

Been busy today with the Protze and managed to get to a farm sale for a couple of hours around lunch time and picked up a nice machine vice for two quid!
Attachments
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Primed in my lovely grey.
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It's been a lot of head scratching to get this lot sorted
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Managed to get the drive shaft up out the way between the chassis rails
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That's an 8mm silver steel drive shaft so no bending or gear climbing from that area.
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Rear tow hook and twin recovery hooks fitted
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Access hatch cut in the rear bed allows easy adjustment of the shaft and middle diff gears, a bit like the rear Famo bed.
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Lock nuts on all the bolts.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Pete Nash
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Pete Nash » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:39 pm

Hi Phil

Your engineering and modelling prowess is second to none.

As for your suggestion that Armortek start to make 'trucks' instead of tanks will surely get a favourable response.
However, Armortek's forte is in 1/6th scale. The size of their current electronics packages and the batteries required to power 'trucks' for any reasonable time, and give good pulling power, and give a decent load bed for interesting cargo, I think is beyond 1/6th scale.
Sure, it can be done as a static model but what is the fun in that.

I haven't got a Famo but its size suggests that the electronics and batteries can be disguised so was a viable proposition for Armortek, I'm not so sure about other vehicles. The Morris Quad is only just big/small enough for the electronics and batteries but that has a totally enclosed back to hide them.

I note that you are making a 'small' vehicle that is remote controlled. Perhaps you'd like to share your methodology so that 'Armortek' can start thinking of other control systems for trucks and smaller AFV's.

Regards

Pete

Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:12 pm

Hi to you Pete, I just think a few more trucks in the line up might be interesting. Space for the rc control is always a big concern, Armortek modules are just great and so easy to install, I intend to use one of the older auxiliary modules for this build but not sure where to hide it yet, the batteries will not be huge maybe only 7ah. I hope to hide those batteries in the cargo area disguised as crates, everything else under the seats.
I agree a compact module control system might be the way forward for a range of smaller vehicles, although the newer motion and sound modules are very compact compared to the earlier systems, and as we have seen fit nicely in the RR which is very tight for space being one of the smaller models but not as small as the 222.
Keep watching this space to see how I get round it!

Regards Phil
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
Youtube channel, Magpiespyro. For 1/6th scale video action!
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Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:57 pm

I hope you guys enjoy this bit, i'm using a 4" wafer thin cutting disc with no guard, as with one you just can't see what you are cutting ( please use a guard).
But first the motor output shaft machining, well drilling and tapping really. I do like to use old quality drill bit shanks to make the small shaft with the flat on to accept grub screws, the material is an accurate convenient diameter and tough but workable not like the business end of the drill bit.
I hope this isn't going into to much boring detail but I would like you guys to see it warts and all and how easy it is :roll:
Attachments
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First I drilled a 6 mm hole to take the union shaft . Then I've used the key way to guide the M4 tapping drill, this passing right through the shaft.
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A flat filed to accept the grub screw on both ends of the union shaft.
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The 6 mm UJ attached and the motor and gearbox offered up.
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Simple pencil lines mark the hole to be cut, the edges can be cleaned up later and made true with a file.
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Then cutting down through the belly plate and into the engine compartment avoiding the dummy motor as I go.
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The tin transmission tunnel is conveniently placed.
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The motor now awaits some mounts and the hook up propeller shaft which is going to be pretty much inline, a second UJ will link the shaft nicely. Once I'm happy with the installation I will remove more of the belly plate and ad more gearbox detailing.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:36 pm

Almost ready for a test drive but im not rushing.
Attachments
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It's a lot longer than you think about 2/3 the size of the Famo.
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I've flipped the front axle around so that the track rod/tie bar is now at the front, this means the linear actuator is unobstructed at full lock.
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I have run the motor and drive train and all is well
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The various chassis cross members next.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 am

The first under it's own power outing trials the drive train under load. Initial results were good with a nice scale road speed using a esc from my test driver pack, with a nice slow realistic crawl over uneven ground (remember it's not a Tank). Then came the all important hill climb, this showed a lack of available power, the motor just not powerful enough. It did crawl up the tarmac slope but without that grunt needed to pull a load like the 37 mm or the massive V2.
I then swapped out the esc for the Armortek control module just to prove it was the motor lacking horse power, this gave me more grunt with a better soft start, and with the very convenient electric braking working well on the incline but still not enough grunt, so i have now swapped out the motor for a slightly more powerful version ( when you are working with this kind of RND it's a good idea to have a big selection of esc's and motor gearbox combinations in stock) this is now working a treat! To much power though and you will strip the gears or damage a diff, so incremental increases in horse power until you are happy.
I do take my hat off to Mark, his expertise in this area is second to none!
Attachments
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Motion pack loose in the back for now.
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I wonder if the full size had this much travel?
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The off road ability is just awesome, it's worth noting that although not fitted at present the spare wheels also had their own axle, the wheels able to freely rotate if the going got rough and they came into contact with the ground and so preventing bellying out of the vehicle.
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I don't like the look of the big compression spring but what are you going to do? A scale spring looks nice but just doesn't function, I will have to dress it up some how.
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You can just about make out the steering actuator, I just love those things, they are so much better than the big 40 kg servos that we used to use.
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Electric braking whilst negotiating the steep hill gives you more confidence.
Last edited by Phil Woollard on Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:09 am, edited 5 times in total.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Vince Cutajar
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Vince Cutajar » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:43 am

That's really looking good Phil.

I did not understand what you said about the spare wheels having an axle. Does it mean it could have been transformed into an 8-wheeler?

Vince

Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:13 pm

Hi Vince, iv'e edited that photos comment to clarify the spare wheels contribution to the off road ability, see what you think, i will post a photo of the spare wheels in just this kind of ground contact so you can appreciate the principle.
Attachments
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There you go, I wonder just how good the principle worked in practice?
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Last edited by Phil Woollard on Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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Vince Cutajar
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Vince Cutajar » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:43 pm

Got it.

Vince

Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:42 pm

Iv'e been conducting more towing trials to further prove the drive train, that V2 and trailer weighs an awful lot but no problems, I'm trying to be very gentle with the speed and direction inputs just like you would if manoeuvring the full size vehicle and combination.
Next job this afternoon is to take apart an Armortek sound module and remove the TBS mini sound card and then download from Mr B's site the closest truck sound I can get to the Protze, then install the complete sound system.
Attachments
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I don't intend to drive off road with this lot in tow, when the V2 was delivered to the rail head complete it would have been loaded onto a dedicated trailer, then transported on a made up road to then be loaded onto the dedicated launch trailer.
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The scenario I have created here is a bit far fetched as the rocket would have been transported ready assembled, with the fuel, oxygen and batteries loaded once the vehicle was upright.
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The V2 was very fragile and was treated with the up most care whilst being transported, the units found that a very recently assembled V2 performed far better with fewer losses than a vehicle that had been stood around for days!
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When I feel brave I will use this trailer as a firing platform for a tethered rocket engine burn, for those familiar with military hand held para flares, that's the solid rocket motor that I will be using, when I measured the thrust from one a while ago the scales read around 500 grams, no use at all to lift the V2 but for theatrical effect it will look the business.
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Last edited by Phil Woollard on Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Robert E Morey
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Robert E Morey » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:31 pm

Great project Phil. Following with interest. I agree more truck projects would be great. I love the tanks, but you gotta have trucks for support. Surprised that massive motor didn't have much torque. Really nice conversion.
Best regards,
Bob

Phil Woollard
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Re: The V2 project

Post by Phil Woollard » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:51 pm

Hi Bob, that first motor only produced around 20 watts, the one I replaced it with has 50 watts, so really a big jump but now it feels planted, it's not over the top but feels about right now 8)
Last edited by Phil Woollard on Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mechanical engineer, Pyrotechnic technician, and small time farmer.
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