1/4 scale tanks?

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David Brady
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1/4 scale tanks?

Post by David Brady » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:31 am

Hi,

1/4 scale tanks popularity looks like it's on the rise in Europe...I would like to see Armortek manufacturer a model in this scale. A 1/4 tank would make a 1/6 famo look small!

I think Armortek is missing a percentage of the large scale tank market by not offering tanks of this scale.

Cheers

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Tim Page » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:38 am

I think that for some of the smaller models such as the British Universal carrier, Panzer II or Panzer 38T, building them in 1/4 could be good, whilst keeping them to a manageable size.
I dont think my pockets are deep enough though.

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by David Brady » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:44 pm

Hi,

A panzer 111 would be a good start but a Tiger 1 would have the wow factor, models would be expensive but I would love to have one

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by mark lawson » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:53 pm

Mmmmmm all is not quite as it seems 1/4 scale does appeal to some but not all owing to transportation problems then there is the weight issue in Germany Stahl Panther make 1/5 and 1/4 scale but they are not as popular as you think 1/8 scale is the main scale in Germany then there is the cost, I think Armortek are best placed with 1/6 scale this to me is the best scale
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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Paul Wills » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:55 pm

Having seen the size and problems people have had with 1/4 scale tanks it wouldn't be for me, far too big. The weight isn't that much of a problem from the current 1/4 scale manufacturer, but it all GRP and needs bracing to hold the shape together. So I would agree with Mark, it would be just too unwieldy in a prototypical Armortek all alloy model.

But hay, don't let us put you off! start a campaign and get 30 plus together, it worked for the FAMO club. 8) Never say, Never :wink:

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Adrian Harris » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:59 pm

Someone might want to check my maths...

Going from 1/6 to 1/4 means a 1.5 scaling factor. For a scale factor of 1.5, the volume increases by 1.5x1.5x1.5, or 3.375.

Assuming AT sticks to scale thicknesses, the volume of metal required would increase by 3.375 times.

So a static 100kg 1/6th Tiger could weigh 337.5kg in 1/4 scale.

It would require much bigger motors, higher power drive system, bigger batteries and probably steel track links to cope with the weight.

It would take 2.25 times longer to machine the simple flat parts and even more for the 3D parts.

Personally, I can't see them selling the required number of 450kg Tigers, probably costing North of £25,000.

Would be an impressive model though :lol: :lol:

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Chris Hall » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:22 pm

I agree with all the negatives above (especially transportation), to which I would add:

1. Storage. I'm running out of room for my growing fleet of 1/6th ! 1/4th is approaching small car level .....

2. Add-ons. 1/6th is ideal for a vast range of figures and equipment, which I don't think is there for 1/4th.

So I'm very happy to stick with a consistent 1/6th across the board.

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Peter Silcock » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:56 pm

1/4 scale is very impressive when trundling around, but takes room in the garage! Does make 1/6 look puny, I was actually quite surprised how much bigger they are in comparison. I would definitely be in for an Armortek one. With the ease of getting accessories 3D printed lack of mainstream availability is no longer a problem.

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by David Brady » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:37 pm

Hi,

If the cost could be kept to around 12000 per kit then a further £2000 for motion I'm sure there would be potential buyers, I've had a king tiger and a Tiger 1 in this scale and was able to load one at a time in a VW Touran ...now a metal Tiger 1 that was actually a quality item would be the ultimate tank.

I would be in for one if the bank application for a loan is accepted

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Stephen White » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:35 pm

Interesting discussion. I'm sure there would be a market even at the sort of prices Adrian suggests, which seem realistic. In this market, price doesn't seem to be as big a constraint as it might be - in for a penny, in for several thousand pounds.......

One factor which draws me to a consistent one sixth scale is the ability to compare size of the originals, something which is difficult even in a Museum packed with kit such as Bovington. How much of a leap in capability was there from Pz III/IV to Tiger/Panther for example? To see how huge Centurion is compared with the WW2 tanks is interesting, as it represents the next generation which would have emerged at the end of the war. Elephant and KT seen side by side, the list of interesting comparisons is huge and you'd lose that with the introduction of 1/4th. I'm not much persuaded by the "impressive" argument - these models are all impressive in their own right if well made and there is a danger that a 1/4th model amongst the 1/6th would diminish the latter.

In the end, nice idea but there is only one factor which matters, the economics of production and the willingness of Kian and the team to accept the financial risk of production. I'm not convinced the "FAMO" funding model is viable in the long term and a venture into 1/4th would be a bigger commercial risk.

Interesting to discuss though.

Stephen

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Peter Silcock » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:16 pm

Don't see how you can fail to be impressed by larger scale models or the relevance of scale to comparing to the size of the originals. Look at some of the 1/3 and 1/2 scale rc tanks built by US modellers - astonishingly impressive indeed. 1/4 scale only diminishes 1/6 scale as much as the latter does to 1/16 scale - its simply a matter of personal preference,no diminishing involved. I can't see why the Famo situation is not viable in the long run -exactly the opposite in fact. The crowd funding type model has been hugely successful , much against what I expected. Some have raised millions in the wargaming type field alone leading to production of huge ranges of models and gigantic sales. As you point out the decision is with the new owners though so we will have to wait and see... :D

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by David Brady » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:31 pm

Now this is an awesome model 1/2 scale! I've seen two really nice large scale models that I would like to own and this is one of them

https://youtu.be/rA25FKkE7zA

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Armortek » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:59 pm

Interesting discussion, but we have no intention of making other scales for a whole variety of reasons ... some of them articulated above.
Our strength is in 1/6th scale and that is where we will stick.

Moving this discussion to off-topic.

Kian
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Gerhard Michel
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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by Gerhard Michel » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:48 pm

Very interesting discussion, indeed!

In Germany I really see an increasing market on 1/4 scale and a decreasing market of 1/8 and 1/10 scale. But we shouldn't forget that the real number of sales in 1/4 scale is a lot smaller than that of 1/6 scale, which has become the mainstream! Nevertheless these huge tanks are more impressive than the simple difference of dimensions will show! Please remember the 'awesome impressive' difference between 1/6 and 1/1 scale! :twisted: Who will really believe that an overwhelming original of 60 and more tons is only 6 times larger than an Armortek model?

To my knowledge today only one manufacturer exists making 1/4 scale models in series: all others build slow volumes ore single pieces (in Germany 4 more manufacturers). Another manufacturer of true scale models could be a real enrichment of the tank scene, because the prices of 12,000 to 20.000 € are really paid for these models! :shock:

If one likes to have a look at these models, he can visit Reinholds annual tank meeting in Hausen (Germany), where about 5 to 8 models in 1/4 scale are present; together with about 40 models in 1/6 scale and 1 to 3 in 1/8 scale.

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Re: 1/4 scale tanks?

Post by David Brady » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:43 pm

Hi,

I've been interested in large scale tanks for around 18 years now and can remember the idea of a metal tank in 1/6 scale being offered for sale, many views on weight and reliability were discussed, armortek quickly became the leading manufacturer due to quality and scale resemblance, each model release had its unique wow factor 1/6 king Tiger was the real highlight ...I can still remember the excitement now! many have 5 or six models in armortek's range but may not invest in more due to being if you like full up with 1/6 scale armortek models, for this reason a new 1/4 scale range would spark some new excitement, my king tiger could be around 200kg with steel tracks I'm never going to pick it up so what would another 150kg really mean, many only keep these models at home
so weight should not be a limiting factor I think price could be tho

Cheers

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